





        1

        2                           ---oOo---

        3                     AVENAL ENERGY PROJECT

        4                         PUBLIC MEETING

        5                   THURSDAY, OCTOBER 15, 2009

        6                    7:00 P.M. TO 10:00 P.M.

        7                           ---oOo---

        8

        9

       10

       11

       12                    AVENAL ELEMENTARY SCHOOL

       13                       AVENAL, CALIFORNIA

       14

       15

       16

       17

       18

       19

       20

       21

       22
             REPORTED BY:                               CHERI FIKE
       23                                               CSR NO. 6200

       24

       25


                                                                 1


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1                     A P P E A R A N C E S

        2

        3    HEARING OFFICER:

        4             STEVEN L. JAWGIEL, Assistant Regional Counsel

        5

        6    EPA PERMITS OFFICE:

        7             KERRY DRAKE, Associate Director

        8

        9    AUDIENCE SPEAKERS:

       10             RAY LEON

       11             JENNY SAKLAR

       12             JOHANNES EPKE

       13             INGRID BROSTRAM

       14             AEIRANA AYALA

       15             ODILON PULIDO

       16             GUMARO TELLEZ

       17             IBEL PRECIADO

       18             RENE CONTRERAS

       19             PAUL COBINE

       20             DONNA CURTY

       21             JENNY SAKLAR

       22             JEANNIE TILLOTSON

       23             RAY LEON

       24             LETICIA LOPEZ

       25             GUMARO TELLEZ


                                                                 2


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1             THURSDAY, OCTOBER 15, 2009, 7:00 P.M.

        2                           ---oOo---

        3             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Hello, hello, ladies and

        4    gentlemen.  Excuse me, ladies and gentlemen.  My name

        5    is Steve Jawgiel, I'm the presiding officer over

        6    tonight's hearing.  It's 7:00 o'clock.  I just wanted

        7    to officially open up the hearing tonight.

        8             We are going to take about a ten-minute break

        9    just to let people trickle in and get settled down, but

       10    I did want to go on record that we are open for hearing

       11    at 7:00 p.m., and I'll get back to you in about five to

       12    ten minutes, thank you.

       13             (Recess taken.)

       14             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Ladies and gentlemen,

       15    we'll get started in about three minutes, at about 10

       16    after 7:00.

       17             I'd also like to ask those of you who have

       18    speaker cards, if you would like to have your name for

       19    the record so that you can receive responses, please

       20    fill out your speaker cards and either put them in the

       21    box in the back of the room or you will be able to give

       22    them to Shirley Rivera who will be sitting here in the

       23    front row.  Thank you.

       24             (Recess taken.)

       25             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Ladies and gentlemen,


                                                                 3


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    it's 7:10.  If you could please take a seat, I'd like

        2    to open up this hearing for session.

        3             For the record we officially opened the

        4    hearing at 7:00 o'clock p.m. tonight.  It is now 7:10,

        5    and this hearing is in session.

        6             Good evening and welcome.  My name is Steven

        7    Jawgiel, I am the Public Hearing Officer from the

        8    United States Environmental Protection Agency's Region

        9    9 in San Francisco, California.  We are here today to

       10    hold the second and last public comment hearing for the

       11    proposed Prevention of Significant Deterioration, or

       12    PSD, Permit for the Avenal -- for the Avenal project,

       13    which is proposed to be located in the City of Avenal,

       14    California.

       15             With me tonight is Kerry Drake, who is the

       16    Associate Director of EPA Region 9's Air Division.

       17    Mr. Drake will be giving a brief presentation after my

       18    opening statements, and after Mr. Drake's presentation

       19    we will be opening up the hearing for public comment.

       20    Mr. Drake will also be introducing his team that came

       21    with him today and who have been assisting him with

       22    this project and who are here at this hearing tonight.

       23             This proposed -- this hearing is the -- the

       24    intention of this hearing is to receive your comments

       25    regarding the PSD Permit for the Avenal Energy Project


                                                                 4


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    proposed to be located in the City of Avenal.  EPA will

        2    consider all of your oral and written comments equally.

        3             I want to emphasize that tonight is the last

        4    day for the comment period.  With that, there are three

        5    ways to submit comments at this point in time:  Either

        6    to provide oral comments at this hearing tonight; you

        7    can also go to the back of the room and obtain a

        8    written comment form and submit a written comment.

        9    Leslie in the back is holding up the forms.  You can

       10    submit a written comment tonight by dropping off the

       11    comment in the box in the back of the room.  And the

       12    third way is you can still email a comment to the

       13    Environmental Protection Agency by midnight tonight,

       14    but it has to be received by 12:00 p.m. Pacific --

       15    12:00 a.m. Pacific Standard Time.  So those are the

       16    three available ways to still submit a comment.  After

       17    12:00 p.m. -- 12:00 a.m., I'm sorry, 12:00 a.m.

       18    tonight, the public comment period will be closed.

       19             And if you need information regarding the EPA

       20    website, there are information sheets in the back of

       21    the room that you can obtain that information.

       22             I also want to explain my specific role here.

       23    Although I am serving as the Public Hearing Officer

       24    tonight on this matter, I have no involvement in the

       25    assessment of the proposed permit.  With that I will


                                                                 5


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    not be answering any questions about the permit

        2    tonight.  I am playing a neutral role and merely being

        3    a facilitator of this meeting.  The main objective that

        4    I have tonight is to make sure that everyone in

        5    attendance who wants to provide a oral comment for the

        6    official record is given an opportunity to do so.

        7             Before I begin the procedures, I'd like to

        8    explain how we're going to go about obtaining public

        9    comments tonight and some of the ground rules.

       10             First of all, I'd also like to take care of

       11    some of the -- some general comments about, you know,

       12    where the bathrooms are.  If you should need a

       13    bathroom, always feel free to get up.  The bathrooms

       14    are through the door to my right.  You can actually see

       15    there's a sign on the door that says "restroom."  You

       16    walk out of these doors and walk to your right through

       17    another set of glass doors and the restrooms are right

       18    there.  And there's an exit on both sides of the --

       19    both sides of the building in the back of the room.

       20             This hearing is a formal legal proceeding.

       21    Public notice was made in English and in Spanish in the

       22    Fresno Bee, the Avenal Chimes, and in the Vida en el

       23    Valle.  Public notice was also posted for this hearing

       24    in, or on the EPA's -- on EPA's website.

       25             As you can see, to my right we have a


                                                                 6


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    Certified Court Reporter who is transcribing a verbatim

        2    record of this hearing tonight.  The Court Report --

        3    the Court Reporter is also accompanied by a Certified

        4    Spanish Translator.  If you would like, there is

        5    translation equipment in the back of the room to your

        6    left that will be translating the comments from English

        7    to Spanish and vice versa -- from English to Spanish.

        8    So you'll be hearing Spanish translation on the

        9    headset.

       10             I do ask that when you are -- when you are

       11    finished with the headset at the end of the evening,

       12    that you please return the headsets into the bin as

       13    Leslie -- the bin that Leslie is holding up in the back

       14    of the room.  We would greatly appreciate that.  You

       15    may give public comment tonight both in English and/or

       16    Spanish, whatever is most comfortable for you.

       17             If you present oral comments in today's

       18    hearing, please speak clearly and slowly so that the

       19    Court Reporter can take an accurate account of your --

       20    your comments.

       21             Let's see here.  You'll be given an

       22    opportunity to start making public comments shortly.

       23             The next -- the next item I'd like to address

       24    is registration forms.  There are registration forms in

       25    the back of the room.  You do not have to fill out a


                                                                 7


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    registration form to attend or participate in the

        2    hearing tonight.  However, if you do want copies of the

        3    comments, the official comments to be sent to you

        4    personally, you should fill out a form, otherwise you

        5    should not expect to receive a copy of those comments

        6    be sent to you.  You can also look up those comments on

        7    the EPA website.  And also you can go to the EPA Region

        8    9 office to -- to look at the -- the comments and the

        9    responses from EPA.

       10             I would ask again, if you are interested in

       11    doing so, if you are interested in going to the EPA

       12    offices in Region 9, that you would contact Shirley

       13    Rivera and give her 24 hours' notice due to building

       14    security so she can arrange for proper access to the

       15    building.  So that's another -- another way of viewing

       16    or reviewing the comments and EPA's formal responses.

       17             Again, this is a -- the purpose of this

       18    hearing is to receive comments.  EPA is not going to be

       19    providing answers to your comments tonight.  Those

       20    comments will be released, or those responses to your

       21    comments will be released with the final permit

       22    decision.

       23             If you wish to identify yourself tonight when

       24    you give comments, I ask that you fill out one of those

       25    green cards in the back of the room.  The cards will be


                                                                 8


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    called off in the order that I receive them.  Each

        2    person will be given five minutes to provide a public

        3    comment, an oral comment on the record.

        4             To my left is Omar Sharif (sic), he is from

        5    the EPA Region 9 Air Division.  He will be assisting us

        6    as a timekeeper tonight.  At the four-minute period

        7    when people are speaking, Omer is going to lift up a

        8    card that says, "One minute left."  And then at the end

        9    of the five minutes he'll lift up a card that says,

       10    "Time is up."

       11             I want to assure everyone that these cards are

       12    in no way meant to distract you in your comments.  It

       13    is just a way to let you know where you stand in the

       14    five-minute period.  It also will assist me in moving

       15    the hearing forward and making sure everyone has an

       16    opportunity to speak.

       17             What you also hear or see Omer doing is that

       18    he will be telling me when he's lifting up a card

       19    because I can't see the card.  So if you see him

       20    whispering something in my ear, that's what he's

       21    saying.  I just want everyone to know that.

       22             At the end of the first round of public

       23    comments, if anyone else would like to make additional

       24    comments, oral comments for the record, please let me

       25    know, and I will provide you with an additional five


                                                                 9


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    minutes, if time permitting.

        2             I also want to make sure that everyone knows

        3    that if you give a five-minute oral comment and you

        4    feel like you have a lot more to say, I would also

        5    encourage you to fill out a written comment and submit

        6    that to the EPA as well.

        7             And with that said and done, I'd like to open

        8    up this hearing with Mr. Drake and his representation,

        9    thank you.

       10             MR. DRAKE:  So I just wanted to emphasize, I

       11    see people that don't have headsets.  If you're an

       12    English-only speaker and you want to understand the

       13    comments that are made in Spanish, you might want to

       14    get headsets.

       15             Why are we here today?  Steve, Mr. Jawgiel,

       16    already mentioned why we're here today.  The main

       17    reason we're here is to take your comments on the

       18    proposed Avenal Energy Project.

       19             I'm going to give a very brief presentation

       20    because I want to make sure we have time for your

       21    comments.  If you have questions because you don't

       22    understand what I'm saying, please ask them, otherwise

       23    if you have more in depth questions, I can answer your

       24    questions off to the side so that we can maximize time

       25    for comments.


                                                                 10


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1             So who are we?  We're the Environmental

        2    Protection Agency.  We have ten offices around the

        3    country, and the office that we're from just happens to

        4    be in San Francisco.  But I did want to introduce the

        5    staff that are here today because you might have

        6    questions for them.  So Omer Shalev was already

        7    introduced; Shirley Rivera from our Permits office;

        8    Francisco Arcaute from our Los Angeles office, he's our

        9    press officer down there; Leslie Ramirez, a staff

       10    scientist.  Leslie, if you would raise your hand,

       11    Leslie.  There's Leslie.  And Leslie, by the way, also

       12    speaks Spanish.  If you have questions in Spanish that

       13    I can't answer, maybe I'll get her to help me.

       14             Deldi Reyes is our Office of Environmental

       15    Justice, and Arlene Kabei -- Kabei, excuse me, is from

       16    our Waste Division.  So that's who we are.

       17             So the Avenal Energy Project, and by the way,

       18    there are descriptions of all of this on the posters in

       19    the back.  So I'm going to go through this very

       20    quickly, because the information is also in the back on

       21    the posters.

       22             The Avenal Energy Project as proposed is a 600

       23    megawatt power plant essentially with two units and the

       24    associated emission control devices.  And it's located

       25    in the San Joaquin Air District.  The location is shown


                                                                 11


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    here.  There's also a poster in the back, as I said

        2    earlier.  It's two miles approximately east of I-5 on

        3    the Avenal -- just off of the Avenal Cutoff Road.

        4             The emissions from the proposed project are

        5    about 600 tons per year of carbon monoxide, about 150

        6    tons per year of nitrogen dioxide and about 80 tons per

        7    year of particulate matter.

        8             All right, so air permitting, so what is it?

        9    So I just wanted to start off, basically air permits

       10    are to control emissions from major facilities like

       11    power plants.  That's the -- that's the reason that

       12    they exist.

       13             There are three types of air permits.  The one

       14    that we're talking about tonight is the one that's

       15    listed here, it's called PSD.  It's hard to say kind

       16    of, it's Prevention of Significant Deterioration.  It's

       17    kind of a bureaucratic term, but really it just means

       18    that this permit is for those air pollutants for which

       19    the San Joaquin Valley is in attainment of the health

       20    standards and just to ensure that they don't increase

       21    those emissions enough for the valley to be out of

       22    attainment with them.

       23             There are two other kinds of permits:  A New

       24    Source Review permit, NSR, are for the air pollutants

       25    for which the valley is out of attainment.  In that


                                                                 12


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    case, in the San Joaquin Valley, that's ozone and fine

        2    particulate.  The San Joaquin Air District has issued a

        3    permit already based on New Source Review for those

        4    pollutants.  And the California Energy Commission is in

        5    the middle of a licensing process, and they'll be going

        6    to public notice at some point in the near future to

        7    finish up the New Source Review permit requirement.

        8             And then finally, before the plant -- and both

        9    of those two that I just talked about, PSD and NSR, are

       10    required before construction can even begin.  And then

       11    finally, there's something that we call a Title V

       12    permit that the facility would have to have to operate.

       13    It's basically an operating permit that lists all the

       14    requirements so that it will be a handy enforcement

       15    tool for EPA, the Air District, and the public to use.

       16             All right, so we already talked a little bit

       17    about this permit.  So what this permit is, again, is

       18    for those pollutants for which the San Joaquin Valley

       19    is attaining the federal health standards for which

       20    it's in compliance with.  And so, but it still requires

       21    emission control technology, that's the main part of

       22    it.  So we call it Best Available Control Technology.

       23    You might hear it referenced that way.

       24             I just wanted to point out that the Best

       25    Available Control Technology does take into account


                                                                 13


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    economic considerations, but when you're in a

        2    nonattainment area like the San Joaquin Valley,

        3    remember I mentioned ozone or smog and fine

        4    particulate, the permit that the Air District gave

        5    requires the lowest achievable emission rate technology

        6    which does not allow economic considerations to be in

        7    effect.  So essentially since this is the same proposed

        8    project in both permits, we're talking essentially here

        9    lowest achievable emission rate technology on this

       10    power plant.

       11             So the process also requires us to analyze the

       12    impacts of air quality to make sure that it's not

       13    impacting any of our national parks, the national

       14    ambient air quality standards or endangered species,

       15    and that's what the rest of those bullets are about.

       16    Again, much of this information is on the posters in

       17    the back.

       18             This is also on a poster in the back, but let

       19    me briefly explain the process.  So somebody decides

       20    they want to build something like the Avenal Energy

       21    Project.  They submit an application, in this case to

       22    the Environmental Protection Agency office in San

       23    Francisco.  So we begin our review of that.  So we

       24    conduct a technical analysis.  The main part of that

       25    technical analysis, as I've just described, is are they


                                                                 14


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    putting on the control technologies for the emissions

        2    that are required by law, and have they demonstrated

        3    that the impacts from air quality don't impact the air

        4    quality, don't impact national parks and don't impact

        5    endangered species?  And so there's a technical

        6    analysis that's going on right now that has been done

        7    in our office before we ever propose a draft permit.

        8    So then we propose a draft permit if they meet all of

        9    our requirements.

       10             Finally, and this is what we're doing tonight,

       11    we're in a public review and comment period.  So we've

       12    been in a public comment period since June 16th.  This

       13    is our -- we've had a public meeting on September 29th,

       14    a public hearing on September 30th -- did I get those

       15    dates right?  September 30th and October 1st, excuse

       16    me.  So a public meeting on September 30th, a public

       17    hearing on October 1st, and now this public hearing.

       18    So this is all part of the public process to get your

       19    comments in.

       20             We don't always hold public hearings.  That's

       21    why it says hold a public hearing as necessary.  We do

       22    hold a public hearing where there's significant

       23    interest.  And then finally, we'll respond to any

       24    comments that we receive during this whole process, and

       25    then, and only then, will we decide whether or not


                                                                 15


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    we're going to issue the permit.  That decision has not

        2    been made.  And regardless of whether we issue it or

        3    deny it, it is appealable.  So our final decision can

        4    be appealed to EPA's Environmental Appeals Board.  So,

        5    again, this is a bit redundant, but this project is

        6    for, again, carbon monoxide.  Our permitting process

        7    was evaluating the control technologies for carbon

        8    monoxide, nitrogen dioxide and particulate matter.  And

        9    we're proposing the permit because in our review we've

       10    determined that they've met all of the legal and

       11    technical requirements.

       12             So, again, requiring stringent control

       13    technology, and recordkeeping, testing and reporting

       14    requirements in the permit.  Those would all be part of

       15    the proposed permit.

       16             And then so the next step after this hearing,

       17    again, I told you, as we went through the boxes there,

       18    is we're going to respond to comments and then make a

       19    decision which can be appealed.

       20             And Steve already talked about how to present

       21    comments.  And if you want more information on the

       22    permits, of course, you can talk to any one of us that

       23    we introduced tonight, including myself.  There's

       24    information in the back, there's information on the

       25    table, there's information on our website.


                                                                 16


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1             By the way, these presentations are available

        2    in English on the table as well.  So you'll have those

        3    addresses.  You can actually have physical

        4    documentation, as Steve mentioned earlier, at the San

        5    Joaquin Valley Air District offices in Fresno or at the

        6    EPA offices in San Francisco, or you can call any one

        7    of us, which I encourage you to do if you have

        8    questions.  And, again, our phone numbers are on the

        9    hard copies of this presentation.  This is included in

       10    the back.

       11             And that's all that I have right now.  So I

       12    will turn it back over to you, Steven, for the hearing.

       13             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.  Thank you,

       14    Mr. Drake.

       15             Before we start taking public comments, I also

       16    just wanted a couple more housekeeping rules --

       17    housekeeping matters.  To my right you'll see there's a

       18    table with some refreshments, some water, cookies,

       19    apples, things like that.  Feel free to help yourself

       20    to those.  I also see some folks have some children

       21    here tonight.  We have a kids' table with some

       22    children's puzzles and Crayolas and coloring --

       23    coloring books and things like that.  So please feel

       24    free to help yourself to those also.

       25             And I know -- I don't want to beat a dead


                                                                 17


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    horse, I may have made a confusing comment, and I know

        2    Mr. Drake was mentioning these translation headsets.  I

        3    encourage people to use them.  It's my understanding

        4    that comments that will be made in English will be

        5    translated to Spanish through the headsets, and those

        6    made in Spanish will be translated to English through

        7    the headsets.  So those are provided for you in the

        8    back of the room.

        9             With that said and done, I would like to be

       10    calling people up for public comments.  Let me just

       11    move this microphone to the center of the room and then

       12    we'll begin.

       13              The first person I'd like to call to the

       14    microphone to make public comments is -- is it Ray

       15    Leon?

       16             MR. LEON:  Ray Leon.

       17             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Good evening, Mr. Leon.

       18             MR. LEON:  That way or this way?

       19             THE HEARING OFFICER:  That way.

       20             MR. LEON:  He wants us to turn our back on you

       21    guys.

       22             THE HEARING OFFICER:  There you go, thank you.

       23             MR. LEON:  Good afternoon, buenas noches,

       24    actually, good evening.  My name is Ray Leon.  I grew

       25    up in the community of Avenal.  I went to high school


                                                                 18


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    here, elementary school.  I'm very familiar with --

        2    with this whole area.  The foothills on either side.  I

        3    used to catch scorpions when I was a kid.  And I grew

        4    up here.  My family still lives here.  My mother is 73

        5    years old, my nieces and nephews, my siblings, infants

        6    in the family, and a newborn will come back -- a new

        7    member will come into the family by the end of this

        8    month.

        9             And I'm here because I -- I am not pleased

       10    with the decisions that have been made beginning with

       11    the dump.  The dump that the City Council approved, and

       12    it's for -- for financial reasons they say, but nobody

       13    knows who's going to pay doctor bills once the garbage,

       14    that pollution affects the children.  Nobody knows

       15    who's going to cover those bills.  And, you know, this

       16    is an environmental justice community and it's becoming

       17    a -- a -- more -- a stronger environmental justice

       18    community or injustice community.

       19             The scene of environmental racism is becoming

       20    much more evident, particularly with this proposed

       21    power plant.  Those are -- that's a huge amount of tons

       22    of pollution that are going to be concentrated in

       23    between this community, the community of Kettleman

       24    City, the community of Huron.  And I've said it many

       25    times before that these communities are already


                                                                 19


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    disproportionately impacted from various sources on all

        2    sides of the communities.  I mean, just paying

        3    attention to the demographics, low income communities

        4    are for the most part farmworkers.  If you're a

        5    farmworker -- I'm not sure where you guys are from,

        6    where are you from, Steven?

        7             THE HEARING OFFICER:  We're all from the Bay

        8    area.  San Francisco area.

        9             MR. LEON:  That's where you grew up?

       10             THE HEARING OFFICER:  No.

       11             MR. LEON:  Where did you grow up?

       12             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Chicago, Illinois.

       13             MR. LEON:  Chicago, Illinois.  How about you,

       14    Omer?

       15             MR. SHALEV:  I grew up in the L.A. area.

       16             MR. LEON:  In the L.A. area.  So this is --

       17    you may not be too familiar with the valley, but this

       18    is what we call, or what has been identified as the

       19    Appalachians of the West.

       20             The Measure of America, American Human

       21    Development Report, which was commissioned by Oxfam, an

       22    international human rights organization, just recently

       23    released data last year on the -- the -- the specific

       24    criterias of income, education and health for the San

       25    Joaquin Valley.  It turned out that five of the


                                                                 20


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    congressional districts within this region, because

        2    that's how they did it with respect to congressional

        3    districts.  In the country there's 436 congressional

        4    districts when you count D.C., five of the

        5    congressional districts, five out of six in the San

        6    Joaquin Valley, were in the bottom end of the barrel in

        7    respect to income, education and health.  I'll bold and

        8    underline health.

        9             And Congressional District 20, which is Jim

       10    Costa's district where you currently are sitting, this

       11    area is part of Jim Costa's district, well, that

       12    district was dead last, 436th place in respect to

       13    income, education and health.  And it boggles me, it

       14    boggles my mind to find that continuously U.S. EPA, Cal

       15    EPA and all the agencies, the BDOs, as they call them,

       16    continue to allow air quality permits to come through

       17    so that pollution can be spewed, more and more

       18    pollution be spewed in the very sensitive areas.  This

       19    is one of those sensitive areas.

       20             You know, you guys probably grew up in nicer

       21    parts of town.  You may not be familiar with what's

       22    going on, but -- but this is one of those areas that we

       23    can't afford to get more pollution.  And the argument

       24    of the City, and I have one City Council member over

       25    here, we got Sid over here, and their argument is that


                                                                 21


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    this is a tax base.  That it's going to bring money to

        2    the City.  And so they are not counting the

        3    externalized costs.

        4             The asthma, the exacerbation of asthma that's

        5    going to happen with the kids.  And a lot of times the

        6    valley, Fresno, this area, is actually the highest --

        7    the area in the nation with the highest rates of

        8    asthma.  You know, and it's no mystery.  This region is

        9    like a bowl, no pollution leaves this area.  It just

       10    continues to pile up and impact public health, you

       11    know.  It's -- it's very, very negative to --

       12    especially the families, these communities that don't

       13    have health insurance, which is a reality around here,

       14    that work in areas where there's a lot of pesticides.

       15    Cumulative health impacts, I'm sure you're familiar

       16    with that.  And so it's -- it's very disrespectful for

       17    any agency to try to bring -- to try to allow more

       18    pollution to come into this area, right.

       19             And so going back to the argument of it being

       20    an economically feasible option for this area, I would

       21    have to say that that isn't the case.  And as I

       22    conclude, that isn't the case, because you can easily

       23    develop in that area to create energy, have a tax base

       24    and create jobs.  This power plant is not going to

       25    provide jobs for the residents in this area.  They're


                                                                 22


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    all going to come from Tulare or other parts of the

        2    valley or other parts of the State, perhaps even from

        3    Chicago, perhaps from L.A., maybe your relatives will

        4    get a chance at it, maybe not, you know, but it's not

        5    going to provide any opportunities for our residents.

        6    So it's only going to provide problems, pollution

        7    problems.

        8             We've got to take the lesson of Mendota and

        9    the lesson of Huron.  Mendota just broke ground the

       10    other day to put up a 5 megawatt power plant -- 5

       11    megawatt solar farm.  Provide clean energy, jobs and so

       12    forth.

       13             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Mr. Leon, I hate to

       14    interrupt you.

       15             MR. LEON:  Well, let me just finish with this

       16    last point.

       17             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.

       18             MR. LEON:  And the community of the Huron

       19    they're working on a 5 megawatt solar farm as well.

       20    Clean energy.  Avenal don't need 600 megawatts of

       21    energy.  That's way more than what we need.  That

       22    energy is going to the coast, going to Morro Bay, going

       23    elsewhere, transmission lands are right next door.

       24             Please do not harm our community more than

       25    what has already happened.  Do not allow this -- this


                                                                 23


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    power plant to come in.  Reject the permit on behalf of

        2    my family, my relatives and my community members, my

        3    friends that live in this community, and Huron,

        4    Kettleman City and Coalinga and the valley as a whole.

        5    So thank you very.

        6             THE HEARING OFFICER:  I appreciate your

        7    comments, Mr. Leon.  And Mr. Leon, I assure you again

        8    if you would like to submit additional comments, you

        9    can do so in writing, or if we have time, I will be

       10    taking a break later on, let me know if you'd like

       11    another five minutes, and then if we have time

       12    permitting, I'd be happy to call you back up.

       13             MR. LEON:  Thank you.

       14             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.

       15             The next person I would like to call up to the

       16    microphone is Jenny Saklar.

       17             Good evening, Miss Saklar.

       18             MS. SAKLAR:  Hi.  My name is Jenny Saklar, and

       19    I'm here on behalf of the Central Valley Air Quality

       20    Coalition Environmental Justice Committee.  And I have

       21    some unfortunate news to share, that we learned today

       22    that there was another stillbirth in Kettleman City

       23    just today.  And that's part of the reason why I'm

       24    here, to oppose this permitting of the power plant.

       25             The Environmental Protection Agency cannot


                                                                 24


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    proceed with this permitting until pollution is ruled

        2    out as a factor in negative public health effects and

        3    outcomes within these environmental justice

        4    communities, Kettleman City, Huron and Avenal.  With

        5    the recent number of birth defects and stillbirths and

        6    cancer clusters found within the area, it's -- it would

        7    be irresponsible -- totally irresponsible for the

        8    agency to bring in a big polluter, such as this

        9    proposed project.

       10             We're really, really concerned about the 400

       11    tons per year of criteria pollutants, and as well the

       12    two million tons of greenhouse gases that are expected

       13    to come out of this power plant, which adds to the huge

       14    burden -- the huge air pollution burden that we already

       15    have.

       16             The EPA needs to investigate further with --

       17    with the community with a proper health analysis that

       18    includes community health surveys, talk to the

       19    residents, see what's happening.  And I believe that

       20    you'll find with the cumulative health impacts related

       21    to air pollution, pesticides, landfill, energy

       22    production, all of these types of things, you'll find

       23    that these communities are continually being

       24    disproportionately impacted by the environment in which

       25    they live and work and play.  And so again, I want to


                                                                 25


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    really emphasize that approval of this project is not

        2    viable here.

        3             We already live in a region that has a

        4    one-in-five child asthma rate, and as I'm sure you've

        5    heard, with the six billion dollar a year health cost

        6    that we have related to air pollution, this is only

        7    going to burden our communities more, and it's going to

        8    burden, as Ray shared, some of the most concentrated

        9    poverty impoverished areas within our valley.  Families

       10    don't have access to doctors, they don't have access to

       11    insurance, and it's only going to bring family and

       12    community economies down as members -- as community

       13    members take up emergency room visits.

       14             So there are models that make sense out there.

       15    As in the Mendota and the Huron solar factories, we can

       16    really look towards clean energy that doesn't use

       17    biomass, that really creates sustainable jobs here in

       18    the valley, and can really help rise the economy.

       19    That's what I want to see -- that's what we want to see

       20    the EPA encourage and to support and to permit, not

       21    polluting industries.

       22             A little bit about the process.  We also feel

       23    that within the San Joaquin Valley Air Pollution

       24    Control District process and the CEC process that it

       25    violates the Executive Order of Environmental Justice


                                                                 26


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    to provide materials in Spanish and to give proper

        2    notification to the public.  With that said, we feel

        3    that having this EPA hearing within the same time

        4    period as the Chem Waste hearings and other agencies

        5    that have done public meetings related to this project

        6    all within the same weeks is really not suitable for

        7    encouraging as much public comment and as much

        8    involvement as it can get, and that is exactly what is

        9    required by the Executive Order of Environmental

       10    Justice, and so we feel like that's a failure of this

       11    process and would ask that you expand that further with

       12    an additional 60 days, if possible.

       13             So really to conclude, I just want to say that

       14    we really need to look at ensuring maximum protection

       15    for these communities.  The San Joaquin Valley is

       16    continually being dumped on with a whole slew of

       17    pollutants, but specifically the communities here that

       18    we're talking about, Avenal, Kettleman City, Huron,

       19    we're all experiencing disproportionate impacts.  And I

       20    come back to you with that unfortunate news of the

       21    stillbirth and we need to explore why that's happening.

       22    There are environmental connections here that we

       23    haven't found, and for that reason we cannot have --

       24    have more polluting industries like this power plant.

       25             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.  Thank you,


                                                                 27


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    Miss Saklar.

        2             The next person I would like to call to the

        3    microphone is -- is it Johannes Epke?

        4             MR. EPKE:  Johannes.

        5             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Johannes, sorry about

        6    that.  Thank you.

        7             MR. EPKE:  Thank you.  My name is

        8    Johannes Epke.  I feel like I need to address everybody

        9    in the group here.  Is it okay if I make comments like

       10    this?  Is that --

       11             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Absolutely, whatever

       12    feels most comfortable to you.

       13             MR. EPKE:  My name is Johannes Epke.  I'm here

       14    on behalf of the Center on Race, Poverty and the

       15    Environment.

       16             I'd like to say thank you first for holding

       17    this hearing and providing the space and the

       18    translation for the community to come out and

       19    participate in this matter.

       20             Most of my comments today will be of a legal

       21    nature, but I'd first like to state that, like the

       22    previous two commenters said, putting a power plant and

       23    one of this size and ability to pollute in an already

       24    very polluted airshed is, as a matter of policy, just a

       25    terrible idea.  I'll leave it there.


                                                                 28


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1             My first comment on the PSD Permit is about

        2    the BACT determination and the BACT analysis done on

        3    this -- on this facility.  The application, the

        4    statement of basis, and the proposed permit do not

        5    represent a top-down case-by-case BACT analysis for

        6    this facility.  This is one of the central points of

        7    the PSD process, that all of the possible control

        8    technologies are identified and laid out and examined.

        9             In this process it does not seem that this has

       10    happened.  It seems like the applicant proposed to EPA

       11    what BACT should be and EPA merely agreed.  In fact, it

       12    does not seem that the applicant even understood that

       13    top-down BACT analysis was required.  It seemed that

       14    their BACT application was done under the San Joaquin

       15    Valley Air Pollution Control District BACT rules which

       16    differ from the federal rules as I understand it.

       17             As a procedural matter, the application, the

       18    evaluation, and the proposal of this permit seem so

       19    flawed that EPA must know that this permit will be

       20    vulnerable to legal challenge.

       21             A small note on the fact that this PSD Permit

       22    does not address greenhouse gas emissions.  Carbon

       23    dioxide and the other identified greenhouse gases are

       24    pollutants under the Clean Air Act and are regulated --

       25    are subject to regulation under the Clean Air Act and


                                                                 29


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    therefore must be given a BACT limitation.

        2             On to the individual pollutants and the

        3    control technologies identified for this facility.

        4    Mr. Drake says that we're essentially looking at lowest

        5    achievable emission rate which does not take into

        6    consideration economics for this facility.  That isn't

        7    true.  There are a number of control technologies that

        8    could be used at this facility, but they just cost too

        9    much, frankly, in the applicant's and apparently in

       10    EPA's determination.

       11             For carbon monoxide, oxidation catalysts are

       12    great, sure.  Lower emission rates than are required in

       13    this permit have been achieved.  The 2.0 PPMVD is not

       14    the Best Available Control Technology limit.  Other

       15    control technologies, potentially a thermal oxidizer

       16    and RTO or RCO could be analyzed for use there.

       17             For particulate matter, which is obviously a

       18    huge issue in the valley -- for particulate matter,

       19    which is obviously a big issue in the valley, they are

       20    proposing no control technology at all.  In fact,

       21    they're saying that just burning natural gas is clean

       22    enough.  There are filters, electrostatic participators

       23    or bag houses or fabric filters even that are available

       24    to control these technologies or to control these

       25    emissions.  These should all be analyzed in the proper


                                                                 30


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    top-down BACT analysis that was avoided in this

        2    situation.

        3             The BACT rules under the federal rules say

        4    that all available control options with practical

        5    potential for application to the specific emission unit

        6    for the regulated pollution under evaluation must be

        7    analyzed.

        8             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Mr. Epke, just so you

        9    know, there is one minute, one minute.

       10             MR. EPKE:  Great.

       11             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.

       12             MR. EPKE:  I think I will conclude my comments

       13    with that.  Thank you.

       14             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you so much,

       15    Mr. Epke.

       16             MR. EPKE:  Sure.

       17             THE HEARING OFFICER:  The next person I'd like

       18    to call to the microphone is Ingrid Brostram.

       19             Good evening.

       20             MS. BROSTRAM:  Good evening, my name is Ingrid

       21    Brostram.  I'm also with the Center on Race, Poverty

       22    and the Environment.

       23             First of all, I'd like to echo what everyone

       24    else has said today.  As a policy matter a power plant

       25    is not appropriate for the valley, and specifically not


                                                                 31


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    appropriate for this particular area that is facing

        2    cumulative impacts of a hazardous waste dump with

        3    combined impacts from the other pollution sources in

        4    the valley.  And particularly I'd like to address the

        5    concerns of Kettleman City, which I think we need to

        6    remember is about the same distance away from the

        7    proposed project as is Avenal.

        8             I would ask that a hearing also be held in

        9    Kettleman City so that those residents can participate,

       10    and also that the comment period be extended given that

       11    those residents in particular are facing an abundance

       12    of permitting processes right now that we're currently

       13    engaged in.

       14             It's interesting that to come down here week

       15    after week after week as we -- we fight expansion of a

       16    hazardous waste dump, as we're dealing with birth

       17    defects, the cluster.  We heard today that there's

       18    another baby that has fallen victim to whatever it is

       19    out there that's causing these birth defects.  So, as a

       20    practical matter, we would ask that the PSD comment

       21    period be extended, that a hearing also be held in

       22    Kettleman City so that those residents can also fully

       23    participate in this process that will affect them so

       24    much.

       25             I have tonight several letters to submit to


                                                                 32


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    you.  One is on behalf of NRDC, CRVE, Greenaction for

        2    Environmental Health and Justice, as well as El Pueblo

        3    Para El Aire y Agua, I will submit that to you.  And I

        4    also have a separate letter from Greenaction.

        5             The issue that I would like to speak about is

        6    the interpollutant trading issue.  This project will

        7    use a one-to-one ratio to offset its PM emissions, or,

        8    sorry, it's -- yeah, it's PM emissions with SOx

        9    controls.  First of all, EPA itself recognizes that a

       10    40 to 1 interpollutant trading ratio was more

       11    appropriate in terms of offsetting actual impacts from

       12    PM.  And it's very important to recognize that SOx and

       13    PM have very different health effects, and that's

       14    primarily what we're concerned with.

       15             PM is a very localized pollutant, therefore,

       16    you know, PM that's emitted from the project will most

       17    impact the communities closest to it, that will be

       18    Avenal and Kettleman City.  SOx reductions will have a

       19    wider range in terms of how far the SOx would have

       20    travelled without those reductions.  Therefore,

       21    reducing SOx is really not going to have the same

       22    health impact as it would if there was direct PM

       23    mitigation.

       24             Secondly, SOx and PM have very different

       25    health impacts.  PM, it aggravates the respiratory --


                                                                 33


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    respiratory breathing and it contributes to asthma at a

        2    much greater rate than SOx do.  So, again, we have the

        3    situation where the offsets used by this facility will

        4    not actually decrease the health impacts at an equal

        5    rate.

        6             And finally, just as a procedural matter,

        7    there's no evidence in the application or in the EPA's

        8    documents that prove that PM and SOx reductions will be

        9    equal.

       10             So, as a legal matter, the PSD Permit as it

       11    stands now, is not legally sufficient, and as a policy

       12    matter EPA should not look at this as a -- as a -- as

       13    compartmentalized as EPA usually does.  It needs to

       14    look at this facility in a broader blend taking into

       15    consideration all the pollution that's here in this

       16    particular area, and in particular the hazardous waste

       17    dump and those cumulative impacts.

       18             We have asked EPA to take a look at San

       19    Joaquin Valley and its R Permit, and to my knowledge

       20    EPA has not yet done so.  I think that's very important

       21    that EPA does make sure that the nonattainment

       22    pollutants also are being mitigated as -- as -- as is

       23    legally appropriate.

       24             And so I again would implore the EPA to not

       25    only, you know, follow up and do more with this PSD


                                                                 34


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    Permit, but also to look at the San Joaquin Valley and

        2    make sure that their NSR is actually appropriate.

        3    Thank you.

        4             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.  Thank you,

        5    Miss Brostram.

        6             The next person I would like to call up is

        7    Aeirana Ayala.  I guess she stepped out.  We'll wait --

        8    we'll wait for one second and see if she's just

        9    outside.  Otherwise I'll -- I'll put her card to the

       10    side.

       11             MR. LEON:  You can go to the next one and then

       12    call her back.

       13             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Sure.  Oh, here she is.

       14             Hello.  Good evening.

       15             MS. AYALA:  Hello.  My name is Aeirana, and

       16    I'm just here because I'm concerned of what I've been

       17    hearing that they want to put this plant.  The reason

       18    I'm concerned is because I have my son and I have my

       19    nephews and all my family lives here and I mean by what

       20    I've heard it's not looking good, you know, for the

       21    health.  And I think -- my mom has asthma, and as I

       22    keep on hearing that it will cause asthma attacks, it

       23    could cause headaches, it could cause so many other

       24    diseases that I really wouldn't want that to happen to

       25    none of my family members, and I wouldn't -- I know you


                                                                 35


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    guys wouldn't like that to happen to none of your

        2    family members.

        3             And, I mean, yeah, not a lot of people came

        4    today or nothing to this meeting, but I'm concerned.

        5    Like, I'm really concerned of, you know, what's

        6    happening here and that's why I'm here.  And so, yeah,

        7    thank you.

        8             THE HEARING OFFICER:  We appreciate you being

        9    here and letting us know how you feel.

       10             MS. AYALA:  Thank you.

       11             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.  The next

       12    person I would like to call up to the microphone is

       13    Odilon Pulido.  And just again a couple of...

       14             THE INTERPRETER:  Actually we'll do it this

       15    way.

       16             MS. RAMIREZ:  Folks, if you're speaking

       17    English and you would like to hear the commenter speak

       18    in Spanish, please come and get a headset and we'll be

       19    distributing them as well.

       20             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Yes, Mr. Pulido.

       21             MR. LEON:  You guys don't want to do it

       22    simultaneous?

       23             THE INTERPRETER:  I was going to do that.

       24             MR. LEON:  Because, I mean, they can work it

       25    out.  There's not a lot of people here where he can


                                                                 36


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    speak --

        2             THE INTERPRETER:  Right.

        3             MR. LEON:  -- and then you interpret.  Unless

        4    you want me to assist?

        5             THE INTERPRETER:  No, no, it's okay.  I was

        6    trying to do something else, that's all.  Okay.

        7             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Mr. Pulido, if I could

        8    have you speak into the microphone so that we can hear

        9    you.  Thank you.

       10             MR. PULIDO:  My comment is this:  Why is it

       11    that you want to bring so much pollution here to

       12    Avenal, Huron and Kettleman City?  Is it because we

       13    have more concentration of Hispanic people?

       14             I worked here in this area making fences and

       15    changing posts, and in the area of Kettleman City

       16    there's a great pollution already because I -- I

       17    changed about a hundred -- like a mile of -- of

       18    changing -- there were metal or iron posts, and to me I

       19    thought that they were sideways and they had gone askew

       20    because of the rain.  That fence is more or less about

       21    a quarter of a mile from the dump where they're taking

       22    away the waste.  The first posts that I tried to remove

       23    from the earth and I tried to put up straight, there

       24    were about half a inch or even less than that where

       25    they were in the dirt, but from the top they were new,


                                                                 37


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    but from the bottom they were wasted, they were

        2    spoiled.  Correction, that was less than two years.

        3             And now they want to put more contamination

        4    here.  I think that concrete is going to be terrible.

        5    Supposedly they're trying to protect the dump so that

        6    the vapors would not come out, but the fence that is

        7    around it is falling apart because of the pollutants.

        8             What's going to happen to us?  Why is it that

        9    you don't look for another area instead far away from

       10    here?  There is already enough contamination here.  My

       11    question is:  Why did you not go and choose an area

       12    that is further away that's more rural or alone?  Why

       13    don't you build this plant near, let's say,

       14    Bakersfield, because it's not good for you, right?  I

       15    think Bakersfield has a lot of powerful people that

       16    would never allow you to build that plant there.  Here

       17    I don't think that there's enough people of wealth that

       18    with their influence could basically make you go away

       19    and go somewhere else.

       20             And I would like to know why is it that you

       21    have that idea of making that plant here?  We are not

       22    going to have or get any benefit from it.  To me that

       23    is my comment that that plant should not be built here

       24    at all.  That's my comment, thank you.

       25             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you, Mr. Pulido.


                                                                 38


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1             And Mr. Pulido, and the rest of you that are

        2    here, if you're asking questions to me, I just want to

        3    reiterate that...  Maybe we'll just take a -- why don't

        4    we take a five-minute break.  It is now 8:06.  Why

        5    don't we go back -- we'll go back on record at about 11

        6    after, thank you.

        7             (Recess taken.)

        8             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Ladies and gentlemen,

        9    I'm just going to extend the break period just for a

       10    couple more minutes because I know a few people went to

       11    the restroom, so I'll wait until they get back and then

       12    we'll proceed.  Thank you.  Again, feel free to help

       13    yourself to any of the refreshments in the back.

       14             (Recess taken.)

       15             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Okay, ladies and

       16    gentlemen, we're going to resume the hearing for public

       17    comment.

       18             To explain how the translation devices are

       19    going to work, when someone is up speaking Spanish,

       20    you'll be able to hear the translation in English

       21    through your headphones, and vice versa, when someone

       22    is giving a comment in English, if you are using

       23    headphones, you will be able to hear the comments in

       24    Spanish.  I will do my best to not talk at the same

       25    time as the Spanish speaker so there's both an English


                                                                 39


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    and Spanish translation going on at the same time.

        2             And, again, I encourage everyone in the

        3    back -- everyone in the room to grab a set of

        4    headphones.  We have plenty of them in the back.  That

        5    way you can hear all the comments that are being made

        6    tonight.

        7             So I'd like to continue on.  The next person I

        8    would like to call to the microphone is Gumaro Tellez.

        9    And, again, I want to apologize if I'm mispronouncing

       10    anyone's names, but feel free to correct me.

       11             Good evening.

       12             MR. TELLEZ:  My name is Gumaro Tellez.  I live

       13    on 301 Kern Street here in Avenal.  First of all, I

       14    would like to ask when did these meetings begin?

       15    Because I had no knowledge.  I've been here for

       16    two-and-a-half months, and I have not gotten any mail,

       17    like an invitation for the meeting that we have

       18    tonight.  I was invited tonight by coincidence by a

       19    friend.

       20             Okay, what I want to do is make a comment

       21    regarding that plant.  Who is that plant going to

       22    benefit?  Who are they going to give the benefit to?

       23    Because to us we have lots of pollutants here.  We have

       24    a very heavy contaminant in Kettleman City.  We have

       25    another one here.  It's called the City of Sombrero.


                                                                 40


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    And frankly, we have contaminants everywhere.

        2             Previously there were children that were not

        3    born with birth defects, see.  But now -- I'm aware now

        4    that there's more than five, more than five children.

        5    Why is that that before there was none and now there

        6    are some?  I think it's because of the contamination

        7    that we have here in our area.  If you're going to send

        8    the electricity somewhere else, why not please put it

        9    somewhere else?  We already have enough.

       10             We are sick from asthma.  I suffer from

       11    asthma.  I didn't have any -- when I got to this place

       12    I didn't have asthma, now I have it.  Well, I am asking

       13    please to make this plant in a different place which it

       14    would benefit other areas, but to us here that plant

       15    does not benefit us.

       16             I am aware that the electricity is very

       17    important.  It's very beneficial for all humanity, but

       18    we also have to see where we have to build those

       19    plants, in a deserted area, in an area where we're not

       20    contaminated.  We have Kettleman City to one side, we

       21    have Avenal, we have Huron.  Maybe Huron doesn't have a

       22    lot of pollution, but we do here and Kettleman City

       23    also.

       24             And we also need please for you to please have

       25    the kindness to notify us when you're going to have


                                                                 41


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    these meetings.  I wasn't aware of it.  Now you say

        2    that you sent fliers, but with wrong addresses, it's on

        3    Fourth Street, okay.  And so we are not aware of when

        4    your meetings are going to be held in our community.

        5             Our Directors of our City here, the people

        6    from the City, our Directors, they have to keep us

        7    better informed so that they can't be depending on

        8    themselves, but they don't do anything for us either.

        9    I tell the Directors of the City, which some of them

       10    are here, I know them, as to why do they allow these

       11    things that are not normal that they don't notify the

       12    community?  Most the people here, around here that live

       13    here are Hispanic like us.  Most the people that live

       14    around this area are Hispanics, and the American

       15    people, they do what they want with us.  Why that

       16    discrimination against us?  We already have enough

       17    contamination, like they say.  Are we going to compare

       18    ourselves to dogs, like skinny dogs?  All the fleas get

       19    on us.  So then please be sensitive to us as humanity,

       20    please, that's what I'm requesting of you.

       21             If you are going to build a plant here and

       22    you're going to send the electricity somewhere else,

       23    build it over there where you need it, please.  That's

       24    what I'm asking of you.  Thank you very much and we'll

       25    see you later.


                                                                 42


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you very much.

        2             (Applause.)

        3             THE HEARING OFFICER:  The next person I'd like

        4    to call to the microphone is Ibel Preciado.

        5             Good evening, Miss Preciado.

        6             MS. PRECIADO:  Good evening.  My name is Ibel

        7    Preciado.  My address is on 305 East Merced.  I am a

        8    resident of Avenal for more than 30 years.  I have

        9    seven children and seven great grandchildren -- seven

       10    children, seven grandchildren and four great

       11    grandchildren of which we are residents of this area.

       12    And I have seen many illnesses in some of my

       13    grandchildren and myself many allergies.

       14             I also do not agree to that plant.  I also ask

       15    of you to be aware -- to be sensitive.  People also

       16    have family members, that you want the best for your

       17    family members.  Myself, I also want the best for my

       18    children, my grandchildren, my future great

       19    grandchildren.  I can't do it anymore.  I'm about 84

       20    years old right now, thank God.  It doesn't matter to

       21    me, I already lived my life, but those innocent

       22    children that are coming, what are they waiting?

       23             I also agree to the opinions that came to this

       24    place to ask of you and to plead to you to send it to a

       25    different area because not a lot of people, because


                                                                 43


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    think of the inhabitants, the amount that live here in

        2    Avenal and the ones in Kettleman City and in Huron and

        3    in Coalinga which are the nearest towns.  There are

        4    towns that have less people.

        5             Please I ask you to find a place where you can

        6    place it farther away as possible where there's not so

        7    much people, but that is not going to affect our

        8    children, our great grandchildren and who knows how

        9    many generations who are taking in all those

       10    contaminants.  And what I wish is a good future, which

       11    we all need.  Those are my desires.  I ask that of you

       12    in God's name.  Thank you.

       13             (Applause.)

       14             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you,

       15    Miss Preciado.

       16             The next person I'd like to call to the

       17    microphone is Rene Contreras.

       18             Good evening, Mr. Contreras.

       19             MR. CONTRERAS:  Good evening, my name is Rene

       20    Contreras and I am an assistant here in the City of

       21    Avenal.  First of all, like the partner said before,

       22    they're not very well informed about what's being

       23    planned here in Avenal.  Previously about three years

       24    ago -- well, they built the construction here of a dump

       25    site and the people did not know there was a lot of


                                                                 44


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    meetings, but nobody was notified.  Once we notice

        2    there was more trucks coming in, many trucks, many

        3    trucks, lots of trash.  And previously the children can

        4    go to the mountains with their motorcycles to play to

        5    have fun.  We live in a small city where there's no

        6    smog.  We deserve clean air.  So now the children can't

        7    even go out because they don't want to breathe the

        8    trash from other cities in Los Angeles, of diverse

        9    places of the region.  It's a dump for trash.  Maybe

       10    for children in Coalinga.

       11             Now they want to bring another plant in.  Like

       12    the partner over here said, yeah, it is important that

       13    the electrical energy and natural gas is, but maybe we

       14    can take that, but like he said, take it to a place

       15    where people are not going to be affected.  You can

       16    probably take it to the mountainside far away from here

       17    where people or children will not be affected by such a

       18    plant.  And, well, it is also important to highlight

       19    that because we are a small town, even though the

       20    company's are saying, well, like a door or a place

       21    where they can come build whatever comes to their mind,

       22    because if there's an access, why don't they put it in

       23    access to -- to I-5.  And there's a lot of electrical

       24    need to construct plants.

       25             If you notice, people don't move about.


                                                                 45


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    There's about 8 to 10,000 inhabitants here, and there's

        2    very little of us.  And that's the reason why people

        3    don't get together.  They don't come to the meetings,

        4    whatever.  And they say, well, people don't do

        5    anything, I guess they agree.  Nobody's notified until

        6    the construction is already there, and so there's the

        7    plant, there's the dump.  And so we're going to

        8    continue like this.  So for the sake of the other

        9    people that didn't show up, I'd like to request that

       10    please build your plant far where future generations

       11    could not be affected.  Thank you.

       12             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.

       13             (Applause.)

       14             THE HEARING OFFICER:  And the next speaker I

       15    would like to call up to the microphone is Paul Cobine.

       16             Good evening, Mr. Cobine.

       17             MR. COBINE:  I've been here for 30 years

       18    living in this town.  I've got asthma and it doesn't

       19    bother me a bit.  I've worked between Kettleman and

       20    Avenal.  And I'm in support of the power plant.

       21    They're not going to be putting that much emissions out

       22    on it, as much as you have going up and down I-5, all

       23    those vehicles we have going up and down that.  The

       24    plant's going to be helping Avenal with all the

       25    employees.  If people in town want to work out there,


                                                                 46


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    they can get qualified.  And I think it will be a real

        2    good thing for Avenal.  Thank you.

        3             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you, Mr. Cobine.

        4             (Applause.)

        5             THE HEARING OFFICER:  We have run out of

        6    speaker cards.  If anyone is interested -- oh, I guess

        7    we have one more coming.  Why don't we take another,

        8    like, five-minute break if anyone needs to go to the

        9    restroom.  If anyone else would like to speak again,

       10    why don't you submit another speaker card, or let me

       11    know if you've already submitted one, and we'll pull

       12    yours out of the batch and I'll call you again.

       13             So why don't we take a five-minute break.  For

       14    those of you who have spoken, if you want to speak

       15    again, please notify us that you have that interest,

       16    and then we'll have our other speaker come up to the

       17    microphone in about five minutes.  Thank you.

       18             (Recess taken.)

       19             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Ladies and gentlemen,

       20    it's 8:35, I'd like to go back on the record and I

       21    would like to call our next speaker up to the

       22    microphone, Ms. Donna Curty.

       23             Good evening, Ms. Curty, thank you for being

       24    here tonight.  Ms. Curty, since you just walked in, I

       25    should mention to you that we're giving each speaker


                                                                 47


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    five minutes.  We'll raise the card when four minutes

        2    is up and then when five minutes is up.

        3             MS. CURTY:  I'm longwinded, I should tell you.

        4             THE HEARING OFFICER:  And you know what, we

        5    have plenty of time, so I'm going to invite people to

        6    speak again if they haven't finished.

        7             MS. CURTY:  Okay.

        8             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Okay?

        9             MS. CURTY:  That's fine.

       10             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Great, thank you,

       11    Ms. Curty.

       12             MS. CURTY:  You welcome.

       13             THE HEARING OFFICER:  The microphone is all

       14    yours.

       15             MS. CURTY:  My name is Donna Curty and I have

       16    been in Avenal since I was born.  I've been here since

       17    I've been ten days old.  My mom and dad came here in

       18    1932.  My grandfather came here in 1926, and he worked

       19    on the gusher of the Kettleman North Dome Association.

       20             We talk about having asthma, one of the things

       21    that you're talking that comes from the dump and the

       22    different places.  Asthma comes from the dust and the

       23    pollution, the pollen in the air.  Now, if you can stop

       24    the plants from giving off pollen and you can stop the

       25    dust from blowing, you won't have asthma.  If you have


                                                                 48


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    got asthma, then you need to move someplace else, maybe

        2    to a high mountain, maybe to the coast or someplace

        3    else.  But you're not getting the asthma because of

        4    the -- of the dump or because of Chem Waste or because

        5    you're going to have an energy plant.  Now how somebody

        6    gave you that information is beyond me.

        7             Some of you people know me because I've

        8    been -- I've been here all my life and I've been a

        9    teacher at the Avenal Elementary School; in fact, I

       10    graduated off this stage in 1949.  I graduated from

       11    Avenal High School a few years later.  And I taught

       12    school here for 32 years.  And I've never lied to

       13    anybody.  I've always tried to tell the truth.  And

       14    what I heard tonight was a lot of fiction.

       15             Now, I remember when Standard Oil and

       16    Kettleman North Dome Association was up here, they had

       17    put their dumps out here along the foothills.  They

       18    would put it off the side of the hill with no burying

       19    of the -- of the --

       20             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Excuse me, Ms. Curty --

       21             MS. CURTY:  Too close?

       22             THE HEARING OFFICER:  No, we're going to try

       23    to figure out what's going on with this.

       24             MS. CURTY:  Maybe somebody doesn't want me to

       25    talk.


                                                                 49


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1             THE HEARING OFFICER:  If you could just hang

        2    on for just one second, Ms. Curty.  We're just going to

        3    try to figure out what's happening.

        4             MS. CURTY:  Does that take away my time, too?

        5             MR. SHALEV:  Try it now.

        6             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Testing, testing.

        7             MS. CURTY:  Anyway, as to continue, I remember

        8    when Standard Oil used to come up there in the hills;

        9    in fact, one of my friends built the yellow house

       10    that's up there on the side of the hill as you're going

       11    up the Hydros Road, that was the Standard Oil dump

       12    along there years ago.

       13             Now, the reason we had the dump when we

       14    started it was to bury all this stuff instead of laying

       15    it along the highways, and like going to Coalinga you

       16    had mattresses laying along the highways and furniture.

       17    We have a dump up here.  And we were very proud of that

       18    dump.  As a kid, I knew that all that stuff -- all the

       19    stuff in Avenal went to that place instead of along the

       20    roads and instead of along the alleys and instead of

       21    along the foothills.

       22             We have a dump for a reason, and that is to

       23    bury the stuff that we have.  If we didn't have it,

       24    you'd have it all over creation.

       25             Now, I listened to the EPA, I listened to all


                                                                 50


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    the little comments made.  You people do not live here,

        2    and you come here and tell us what we have and what we

        3    don't have.  Now I know the people -- know the children

        4    that you're talking about that had the -- the birth

        5    defects.  It didn't come from Chem Waste.  It didn't

        6    even have anything to do with Chem Waste.  But we'll

        7    blame it on Chem Waste because that's the way we are.

        8             Now, the plant here is not going to be

        9    detrimental to this society and it's not going to be

       10    detrimental to this community.  It will be an asset to

       11    this community.

       12             And then I hear you people talking about, "Oh,

       13    we don't need it, we need it over there, we need it

       14    over here or someplace else."  We need it here.  We

       15    need it here in our community, and it's not going to do

       16    anything harmful to us.  It's going to benefit us.  And

       17    it's time that we brought benefits to our community

       18    instead of driving them out.  Thank you.

       19             (Applause.)

       20             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you, Ms. Curty.

       21             We don't have any additional speaker cards, so

       22    if there's anyone here that would like to get up and

       23    speak again, I'll be happy to provide an additional

       24    five -- five minutes.

       25             MS. SAKLAR:  Sure, do you need to pull my


                                                                 51


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    card?

        2             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Yeah, or if you could

        3    just restate your name for the record.

        4             MS. SAKLAR:  Sure, my name is Jenny Saklar.

        5             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Sure, thank you,

        6    Miss Saklar.

        7             MS. SAKLAR:  And asthma is not the only thing

        8    we're concerned with regarding the criteria of

        9    pollutants and the greenhouse gases that will be coming

       10    from the power plant.  Clearly there's a very large

       11    amount of research that shows that ozone pollution

       12    impacts lung development and lung function in kids, and

       13    research shows that as youth grow up in heavily

       14    polluted areas, like the San Joaquin Valley and the

       15    environmental justice communities that we're talking

       16    about, their lungs don't develop fully as they would in

       17    a clean air environment and so we're really concerned

       18    about those issues.

       19             We have days -- my office is in Fresno, I live

       20    in Fresno.  We have days where kids are completely

       21    restricted from going outside and having physical

       22    education because of Red Flag days because of 150 AQI

       23    days, and this is happening all throughout the valley,

       24    not just Fresno.  And so we're -- we're telling --

       25    we're trying to educate our kids to say, "Look, we need


                                                                 52


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    to be physically active and prevent things like obesity

        2    and diabetes," and we're at the same time restricting

        3    our youth from going out and playing and getting that

        4    exercise and being involved in sports.  And so it's

        5    affecting everything from the way that kids are

        6    learning how to exercise and to be involved in team

        7    sports, it's affecting education.

        8             As well I just want to talk a little bit more

        9    about particulate matter.  There's a lot of research

       10    again that shows there's linkages between

       11    cardiovascular disease and stroke and particulate

       12    matter.  We know that PM, super fine PM is so small

       13    that it infiltrates every cell of the body.  It goes

       14    into the mitochondria and disrupts cellular function at

       15    a very basic level.  And this is pretty frightening

       16    stuff.

       17             We feel that the San Joaquin Valley has enough

       18    air pollution that we shouldn't be promoting any type

       19    of project that has 400 tons of extra pollutants a

       20    year, criteria pollutants.  And I just really urge you

       21    to -- to rethink this and come up with some solutions

       22    that can benefit the economy and really reduce the

       23    burdens on our public health.

       24             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you again,

       25    Miss Saklar.


                                                                 53


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1             (Applause.)

        2             THE HEARING OFFICER:  We do have another

        3    speaker.  I'd like to call Jeannie -- is it Tillotson?

        4             MS. TILLOTSON:  Tillotson.

        5             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Tillotson, thank you.

        6             MS. TILLOTSON:  Good evening.  I moved to

        7    Avenal 20 years ago to go work out at the prison.

        8             A VOICE:  Speak in the mic.

        9             MS. TILLOTSON:  I moved to Avenal 20 years ago

       10    to work out at the prison, and I like this little

       11    community.  And as a taxpayer in the State of

       12    California and the state of our State I'm getting

       13    really annoyed by all of the hoax that goes on with the

       14    greenhouse gases and all the garbage that goes on with

       15    global warming and the impact it's having on me, my

       16    pocketbook and my community.

       17             We have pollution in the valley.  We're in a

       18    basin.  We get the pollution from the San Francisco Bay

       19    area through the Altamont Pass.  We get pollution in

       20    the San Joaquin Valley from the basin coming from Los

       21    Angeles.  We get pollution every time we have fires in

       22    Santa Barbara, in Sonoma, in the -- in the Grapevine.

       23    We have no control over that.  The EPA and the

       24    environmentalists and all that stuff that's affected

       25    the valley water situation has created the dust bowl in


                                                                 54


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    this valley.  Every time the wind blows and the dust

        2    blows, we're being impacted, that affects asthma, that

        3    affects our kids, that affects everything in this

        4    community.

        5             You can't blame it on Chem Waste.  Chem Waste

        6    has been here for a long time.  You can't blame it on

        7    the dump.  The dump is in much better management than

        8    when I first moved here.  You don't have the trash

        9    blowing around.  It's clean.  It's taken care of.

       10             Ignorance is our biggest problem.  People who

       11    believe the environmental issues, people who believe

       12    the hoax, people who react to the hoax and don't get

       13    the education.

       14             I urge you to continue going forward with this

       15    power plant.  This community needs this power plant.

       16    Thank you.

       17             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you.  Thank you

       18    for being here.

       19             Again, that's the last speaker card I have at

       20    this time.

       21             Mr. Leon.

       22             MR. LEON:  Yes.

       23             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Would you like to make

       24    some comments?

       25             MR. LEON:  I'd like to shed some light so that


                                                                 55


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    there might be less ignorance.  First, I mean that's

        2    really bothersome, this is the first person that

        3    mentions that other residents in this community are

        4    ignorant, which is very offensive to me, and I'm sure

        5    to others, especially when she thinks greenhouse gases

        6    is a hoax.

        7             But, first of all, just to clarify some

        8    things.  That dump of Avenal, it wasn't till very

        9    recently that it has begun to take in, I believe, 600

       10    tons of garbage per day coming from the County of L.A.,

       11    a huge deal that was made, big moneymaker.  Of course

       12    it has impacts that we will see in the near future, the

       13    chronic health impacts will be, I'm sure, immense to

       14    the next generations.

       15             So it sounds like, you know, every time I

       16    think about this I remember a Native American saying

       17    which says, "Every step you take forward, every action

       18    that you make, think seven generations ahead."  And I

       19    don't think our leaders have that philosophy.  That's a

       20    huge problem.  And call it what you will, but the fact

       21    is the dump today is not the dump from yesterday year,

       22    or yesterday years.  Very different, very different.

       23    So it's important that people are informed before they

       24    make statements -- accusatory statements against their

       25    fellow residents.


                                                                 56


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1             The second thing is I think my colleague,

        2    Jennifer, mentioned that within the past two years,

        3    under two years, 20 children were born in Kettleman

        4    City.  Of those 20, 6 were born with cleft pallet, but

        5    other deformities as well, with the lungs, the heart

        6    and so forth.  Of those six children five have died in

        7    the past eight months.  There's a problem.  There's

        8    something going on.  And I think if we are the sort of

        9    individual that washes our hands before we eat because

       10    we think we might have some sort of virus or something

       11    that might get us sick, a germ or whatever that might

       12    get us sick, then when we wash our hands before we eat,

       13    it's because we're practicing something that is called

       14    the precautionary principle, that we might not get

       15    sick, but there's a chance that we will.  Therefore, we

       16    take this measure to prevent at every cost possible

       17    that we get sick.  That's a very simple practice that

       18    all of us remember our parents saying, "Don't forget to

       19    wash your hands," right?  Or your grandparents.

       20             And so, I mean, it's the same thing here.

       21    Children are dying.  We are saying stop with all these

       22    sources of pollution from coming into our community,

       23    coming into our area, until we find out what's really

       24    happening, right?  And that's really important unless

       25    you don't care about children, right?  We got to get to


                                                                 57


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    the bottom of this, what's happening to these kids?

        2    Why are they getting sick?  Why are they being born

        3    with deformities?  Why are they dying?  Let's find out

        4    about that before we move forward and bring in another

        5    dump, bring in more garbage, which vectors come along

        6    with that, vectors come along with that, transmitters

        7    of disease.  Flies are one of the most common vectors,

        8    we all know and love 'em, or hate 'em, really we hate

        9    'em.

       10             So, and regarding particulate matter, one

       11    thing that my colleague didn't get to mention was that

       12    within the San Joaquin Valley, within this region

       13    there's over 1200 premature deaths attributed to PM

       14    2.5.

       15             MS. SAKLAR:  2400.

       16             MR. LEON:  2400, all right, I'm using the

       17    two-year-old figure.  And these are scientific facts.

       18    I mean, these are the facts that are coming from those

       19    individuals --

       20             MS. SAKLAR:  ARB.

       21             MR. LEON:  -- that are also the regulators and

       22    the enforcers, the Air Resources Board, you know, which

       23    is a program under Cal EPA, one of the -- one of the

       24    Boards on the Cal EPA.  And so those are the facts, you

       25    know.  That isn't somebody ignorant telling you that


                                                                 58


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    it's a problem.  It's a fact that we got to take into

        2    account, and if you don't know, then I hope you find

        3    out.

        4             So, and in terms of the pollution coming from

        5    the Bay, that's a old myth from ten years ago.  What we

        6    know is that 12 percent of the pollution in the

        7    northern part of the San Joaquin Valley is attributed

        8    to the Bay.  9 percent of that pollution -- these are

        9    -- this is a three-year-old fact, I mean it's probably

       10    less than that today because of the measures that have

       11    been adopted in the Bay area.  9 percent of the

       12    pollution of the central part of the valley, the Fresno

       13    area, this area, is attributed to the Bay.  6 percent

       14    or less percent of it is attributed to the Bay.  So

       15    let's get our facts straight before we start accusing

       16    others of not being informed.

       17             And so we don't need this power plant.  If we

       18    want really to empower our economy and create jobs,

       19    let's do a solar farm.  It takes more hands that can be

       20    trained here in our community of the people that are

       21    sitting here with you today to get trained and to put

       22    in those solar panels to maintain them and to really

       23    create a stronger economy, a local economy where the

       24    energy could be that of the City's and it will be a

       25    revenues of the City's.  There's alternative ways of


                                                                 59


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    doing this.  Don't get stuck on the old ways of

        2    polluting and killing others.

        3             We got to change our mindset.  You know, if

        4    you're -- there's a lot of elders that know this, and

        5    that have -- have very -- a great deal of wisdom, but

        6    it sounds like to me that there's some elders that

        7    don't.  But thank you very much for your time.

        8             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you, Mr. Leon.

        9             We do have another speaker that would like to

       10    come up to the microphone, Leticia Lopez.

       11             Good evening, Miss Lopez.

       12             MS. LOPEZ:  Good evening.  As a community

       13    member, my name is Leticia and I've lived here all my

       14    life --

       15             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Miss Lopez, I was going

       16    to see if you could -- yeah, thank you.

       17             MS. LOPEZ:  Okay.  I've lived here all my

       18    life.  And I was educated, I went to college and I came

       19    back to my hometown because I care about this town so

       20    much.  I -- what I majored in college was health, in

       21    sociology and health.  And as -- when I came back to

       22    the -- to the valley I was working at the hospital in

       23    Hanford, and as a member -- as working in the hospital

       24    I started being involved in different committees.  And

       25    one of them was the Central Valley Health -- Public


                                                                 60


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    Health Policy Program that's out of Fresno.  And one of

        2    the things I learned while I was doing that program was

        3    that a lot of pollution is coming out of not just the

        4    emissions from cars and the different companies or

        5    things that we have here in the Central Valley, but our

        6    own ignorance in the sense of what happens.  And here

        7    in the Central Valley, at least here in Kettleman, for

        8    example, I have friends who -- I don't know how many

        9    people are -- know about what happened with PG&E in the

       10    last decades with their lawsuits about emissions, that

       11    people got cancers, and that's a true thing that

       12    happened.  There was a number of people who from what

       13    they buried got sick through the water that they lived,

       14    they drank, and that's something that happened.

       15             Waste Management, I'm not so familiar with

       16    what they're going on, but when I was working in the

       17    hospital, they approached us.  I was doing -- working

       18    for the clinics which are located all over the valley,

       19    and they located us because we had a clinic out of

       20    Kettleman and they wanted to do community work with us.

       21    And it just seemed really weird, because it was when a

       22    lot of the lawsuits had just started, and we were kind

       23    of really worried about it because they wanted to work

       24    with us, and we were kind of like, "Why are you guys

       25    working with us?"  I no longer work there, but I know


                                                                 61


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    that they wanted to kind of save face.  And if they're

        2    not responsible for anything, then why are they pumping

        3    money into the community to, like, try to save face

        4    with the citizens?

        5             So it just seemed kind of weird from being a

        6    community member and hearing stories from people who I

        7    went to high school with about their parents having

        8    cancer and their -- you know, their mom not being able

        9    to have any more kids because they had cancer in their

       10    ovaries or whatnot, and that the doctors couldn't

       11    explain why.  That it wasn't something, you know,

       12    genetic, but it was something from the environment.

       13    And, you know, they live in Kettleman and they've lived

       14    there for more than 20 years, so it's kind of -- there

       15    has to be something -- a connection.  They might not

       16    have it in paper or they might not have it in something

       17    written, but if you look at the coincidences and the

       18    birth defects, you know, you have to ask yourself,

       19    where is this coming from?

       20             Yes, we don't have control over the cars that

       21    pass through the 5, and we don't have control over the

       22    dump that we already have and that has been expanded.

       23             Just on Monday when there was a air storm and

       24    there was rain and stuff, I woke up Tuesday morning to

       25    go to work and I passed by the 269 and there was trash


                                                                 62


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    all over, all over the street, all over the road.  And

        2    that trash gets blown into town.  Like it or not, it

        3    gets blown into town.  And so you can't say it doesn't

        4    affect us and it's not all over the street, because it

        5    is all over the street.  And if you drive right now you

        6    can see it because I saw it this afternoon at 5:00

        7    o'clock when I drove into town.

        8             The other thing, you know, I -- I think that

        9    as we can see that there are going to be emissions from

       10    this proposed project, and like I said, we can't

       11    prevent how many cars pass by and we already have the

       12    dump here, and Waste Management has already -- you

       13    know, their cars are coming in with their -- their

       14    waste, but we can prevent this project from being taken

       15    place.  And if other agencies are coming in to town and

       16    talking, yes, they might not live here and they might

       17    not reside here, but they do know and they are educated

       18    in the sense of what's going on and what long-term

       19    effects this can affect us.  And so we should take that

       20    into consideration.

       21             The emissions, it's going to be kind of like

       22    a -- basically a fire -- a long fire that's going to be

       23    burning and the emissions are going to be affecting us.

       24    It might not be something we can see everyday, but

       25    we're gonna -- it's gonna affect us.  Because the fact


                                                                 63


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    that tons -- the proposed air quality that's gonna be

        2    impacted is -- is in the tons, which is ridiculous.

        3             So, in my opinion and my family's opinion this

        4    is something that our town should not welcome in the

        5    city limits.  And although the economical benefits

        6    might seem like something in the long-term, health

        7    benefits in the city that the majority of the people, I

        8    think 80 percent do not have health care, it's not

        9    something that's going to be in the long term effective

       10    for us, and it's not something that we're going to

       11    benefit and our children are going to benefit, and so I

       12    oppose this energy plant being placed here in our town.

       13             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Thank you, Miss Lopez.

       14             (Applause.)

       15             THE HEARING OFFICER:  I again would invite

       16    anyone who would like to make an additional comment

       17    step up to the microphone, otherwise we'll take a

       18    little break for a while.  It is now approximately

       19    8:57.  We'll take a break until 9:15.  And then we'll

       20    check in and see if anyone at that point would like to

       21    make any additional comments.  Thank you.

       22             Oh, sir, would you like to?  Yes.  We'll go

       23    back on the record, we have someone who has expressed

       24    an interest in making additional comments.

       25             Sir, if you could restate your name for the


                                                                 64


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    record, I'd appreciate it.

        2             MR. TELLEZ:  Yes, my name is Gumaro Tellez.  I

        3    live at 301 Kern.  I need to make a comment, because I

        4    want to thank those people that said that we are

        5    ignorant, and I want to tell those people thank you for

        6    being part of the ignorance.  I want to know why don't

        7    they defend their town?  I defend my town, and I defend

        8    all the children that are coming right behind us, all

        9    of them.  Because I think that we are a Hispanic town.

       10    We have the right to be respected, to be free of our

       11    expression and also to have clean air.

       12             Why do we have to have all of the

       13    contamination on top of us?  We already have enough of

       14    that.  That's the reason why I would like to invite

       15    everyone, all of them, I don't know, the people from

       16    the City mainly, I also want them to be aware that they

       17    live among a Hispanic town.  They live because of us.

       18    We work in the fields to bring the food, the

       19    vegetables, the fruit for the table, everyone, all of

       20    us, also for them.  That's why I would like to know --

       21    I would like to know what do they think to contribute

       22    to it themselves that we also have the right.

       23             Many people, them, the Directors of the City,

       24    some of them don't live here, that's the reason why it

       25    doesn't hurt them.  But I have more or less 22 years


                                                                 65


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    here in Avenal, that is why I think that I have known

        2    the town, I have known the development of it for 22

        3    years to the present.  We're people that have come here

        4    to work, always to work.

        5             I already finished my life working here in

        6    Avenal, cooperating with the City, paying my taxes,

        7    that's the reason why I would like you people also to

        8    be sensitive of what we're talking about.  It's a big

        9    pollution, many tons of pollution that this plant's

       10    going to bring in this area, okay.  Thank you very much

       11    and good day.

       12             THE HEARING OFFICER:  It's now 9:01.  Why

       13    don't we take a break until 9:15, and I'll check in at

       14    that time to see if anyone has changed your mind and

       15    would like to make any additional comments.

       16             We're off the record, thank you.

       17             (Recess taken.)

       18             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Ladies and gentlemen,

       19    it's 9:15.  Let me just go back on the record and just

       20    put another call out for anyone who would again like to

       21    come up to the microphone and make any additional

       22    comments.  And if there's no one that would like to

       23    make any additional comments at this time, we'll

       24    continue having another 15-minute break until 9:30.  If

       25    during that period you wish to come up and make an


                                                                 66


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    additional comment, please notify us either verbally or

        2    by filling out a speaker card in the back.  Thank you.

        3             It is now 9:15 and we'll go back off the

        4    record until 9:30.  Thank you.

        5             (Recess taken.)

        6             THE HEARING OFFICER:  Ladies and gentlemen,

        7    it's 9:30.  I'm going to go back on the record.  Again,

        8    if there's anyone else who would like to make a

        9    comment, I invite you to bring your speaker card up to

       10    us.  Otherwise, what we'll do is we are going to be

       11    here until 10:00 o'clock.  What I'll do is I'll go off

       12    record and if someone expresses an interest to provide

       13    a public comment, we'll reopen the record to provide

       14    that opportunity, and otherwise, I'll come back on at

       15    10:00 and sign off.

       16             So unless there's someone else that would like

       17    to speak at this moment, it is now 9:31.  We'll go off

       18    the record and I'll go back on the record at 10:00

       19    o'clock.  Thank you.

       20             (Recess taken.)

       21             THE HEARING OFFICER:  I'm Steve Jawgiel, and

       22    we're back on the record, and it is now 10:00 o'clock.

       23    And I'm going to make one last call for comments.

       24             And since there is no one that has expressed

       25    an interest to comment, I would like to end this


                                                                 67


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1    hearing.  Thank you.

        2             (Matter concluded.)

        3                           ---oOo---

        4

        5

        6

        7

        8

        9

       10

       11

       12

       13

       14

       15

       16

       17

       18

       19

       20

       21

       22

       23

       24

       25


                                                                 68


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450






        1                           ---oOo---

        2

        3              I, CHERI FIKE, a Certified Shorthand

        4    Reporter, DO HEREBY CERTIFY:

        5             That I was the Official Court Reporter for the

        6    proceedings named herein, and that as such Reporter, I

        7    reported in verbatim shorthand writing those

        8    proceedings;

        9             That I thereafter caused my shorthand writing

       10    to be reduced to typewriting, and the foregoing and

       11    annexed pages constitute a full, true, and correct

       12    record of the proceedings.

       13             IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have subscribed this

       14    certificate at Hanford, California, on the 25th day of

       15    October, 2009.

       16

       17

       18
                      _____________________________
       19             CHERI FIKE
                      Official Court Reporter #6200
       20

       21

       22

       23

       24

       25


                                                                 69


                             KINGS COURT REPORTERS
                         CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS
                                (559) 585-3450