MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
1
ENVIRONMENTAL
PROTECTION
AGENCY
PUBLIC
MEETING
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:
In
the
Matter
of:
:
:
40
CFR
Part
312
:
Standards
and
Practices
for
:
All
Appropriate
Inquiries
:
and
Notice
of
Public
Meeting
:
to
Discuss
Standards
and
:
Practices
for
All
Appropriate
:
Inquiries;
Proposed
Rules
:
:
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x
1201
Constitution
Avenue
East
Building,
Northwest
Washington,
D.
C.

Wednesday,
October
20,
2004
A
public
hearing
in
the
above­
entitled
matter
was
held,
pursuant
to
Federal
Register
notice,
beginning
at
1:
05
p.
m.

BEFORE:

BARRY
BREEN,
Chair
Deputy
Assistant
Administrator
Office
of
Solid
Waste
and
Emergency
Response
LINDA
GARCZYNSKI,
Director
PATRICIA
OVERMEYER,
Technical
Lead
Office
of
Brownfields
Clean­
Up
and
Redevelopment
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
2
C
O
N
T
E
N
T
S
PUBLIC
TESTIMONY:

Richard
Young
13
Michael
Mittelholzer
24
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
3
P
R
O
C
E
E
D
I
N
G
S
CHAIRMAN
BREEN:
Good
afternoon.
We
will
let
the
meeting
start
a
little
later
than
planned
because
we
wanted
to
make
sure
we
got
as
many
people
through
security
as
we
could.

My
name
is
Barry
Breen.
I
am
the
Deputy
Assistant
Administrator
here
at
EPA
for
Solid
Waste
and
Emergency
Response,
the
part
of
EPA
from
which
this
program
is
housed.

This
public
meeting
on
the
recently
proposed
standards
and
practices
for
All
Appropriate
Inquiry
is
our
second
public
meeting
on
that
proposed
rule.

We
held
our
first
public
meeting
in
St.
Louis
on
September
22nd
and
we
plan
to
hold
one
additional
public
meeting
in
San
Francisco
on
November
18th.

These
standards
that
we
will
discuss
today
will
be
applicable
to
property
claiming
protection
from
Super
Fund
liability
as
well
as
be
applicable
to
our
brownfields
grantees.

We
published
the
proposed
rules
for
All
Appropriate
Inquiry
in
the
"
Federal
Register"
on
August
26th
and
copies
of
the
proposed
rule
are
available
in
the
back
of
the
room.
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
4
As
you
may
know,
we
developed
the
proposed
rule
using
a
negotiated
rulemaking
process.
The
regulatory
language
that
we
published
in
the
"
Federal
Register"
as
the
proposed
rule
is
the
same
language
agreed
to
by
the
negotiated
rulemaking
committee
at
the
end
of
last
year.

Negotiated
rulemaking
is
a
collaborative
process
that
allows
the
federal
government
to
benefit
from
the
knowledge
and
experience
of
affected
stakeholders.
The
process
allows
us
to
take
advantage
of
this
knowledge
and
experience
at
the
initial
stages
of
the
regulatory
development
process
rather
than
waiting
until
the
end
of
the
proposed
rule
phase.

We
appreciate
the
tremendous
amount
of
time
and
effort
that
the
25
members
of
the
All
Appropriate
Inquiries
Regulatory
Negotiation
Committee
dedicated
to
this
rulemaking
effort.

Now
the
regulatory
negotiation
phase
of
regulatory
development
is
completed.
We
are
here
today
to
hear
your
comments
and
listen
to
any
input
you
may
want
to
provide
us
on
our
proposed
standards.
We
recognize
the
value
of
public
comment
in
the
regulatory
development
process
and
we
appreciate
your
input
and
we
look
forward
to
hearing
your
views.
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
5
I'm
here
today
with
Linda
Garczynski,
immediately
on
my
right.
Linda
is
the
Director
of
EPA's
Office
of
Brownfields
Clean­
Up
and
Redevelopment.

And
on
Linda's
right
is
Patricia
Overmeyer,
also
of
the
Brownfields
Office.
Patricia
serves
as
EPA's
technical
lead
for
the
proposed
rule
and
was
the
designated
federal
official
for
the
negotiated
rulemaking
process.

Linda
will
now
give
a
few
words
and
then
Patricia
will
get
us
started.

MS.
GARCZYNSKI:
Good
afternoon.

Thank
you,
Barry.

I
want
to
thank
the
members
of
the
Negotiated
Rulemaking
Committee,
several
of
whom
are
here
in
attendance
today,
for
their
time
and
their
valuable
input
and
their
diligent
work
with
us
on
the
development
of
this
proposed
rule.
Many
of
those
committee
members
were
present
also
at
the
Brownfields
Conference
in
St.
Louis
in
September
and
participated
in
several
sessions
on
the
proposed
rule.
For
those
of
you
who
attended
that
conference,
you
saw
the
lively
dialogue
that
was
engaged
in
at
the
conference.
That
was
a
taste
of
what
we
did
during
the
regulatory
development
process.
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
6
I
want
to
thank
all
of
you
who
are
here
today.

Public
comments
are
a
very
important
part
of
our
regulatory
development
process
and
a
necessary
part
to
provide
valuable
input
and
insight
to
us
as
to
how
our
proposed
rule
may
affect
you
as
stakeholders.
It
also
helps
us
understand
the
potential
ease
or
difficulties
that
could
be
associated
with
implementing
the
regulation
and
we're
anxious
to
hear
from
you
in
that
regard.

The
Brownfields
Program
is
posited
around
the
fact
that
we
build
partnerships
and
provide
incentives
for
revitalization
of
idle,
abandoned
or
under
used
properties.

Those
goals
center
on
four
basic
tenants,
many
of
those
focus
on
sustainable
redevelopment
of
those
properties
in
manners
that
protect
human
health
and
the
environment
and
contribute
to
community
revitalization.

The
results
of
the
Brownfields
Program
to
date
are
fairly
well
known.
$
6.6
billion
now
have
been
leveraged
in
clean
up
and
redevelopment
dollars
towards
the
reuse
of
those
properties.
More
than
29,000
jobs
have
been
generated
in
association
with
those
properties.
We
have
assessed
more
than
6,000
of
those
properties.
One
of
the
little
known
facts
is
that
for
every
acre
of
brownfield
space,
according
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
7
to
a
GW
University
study,
that's
used
it
saves
4.5
acres
in
green
space
for
redevelopment
purposes.
So
we
think
that's
a
vital
part
of
any
smart
development
process
within
any
of
our
municipalities
and
suburban
communities.

Every
dollar
of
funding
that
the
public
entities
put
into
brownfields
redevelopment,
according
to
a
study
by
the
Conference
of
Urban
Economic
Development,
yields
back
$
2.48
in
private
investments
on
these
properties.
So
not
only
is
All
Appropriate
Inquiries
important
in
the
context
of
CERCLA
liability
but
it's
also
important
in
the
context
of
protection
of
public
health
and
the
environment
and
the
spurring
of
redevelopment
on
brownfields
properties.

It's
also
important
to
understand
that
this
is
the
federal
standard
for
conduct
of
All
Appropriate
Inquiries.

There
may
be
other
standards
established
by
other
state
programs,
although
we
are
noticing
a
trend
on
the
part
of
the
newer
state
programs
to
begin
adoption
of
the
rule
in
concert
with
EPA's
use
of
that
rule.

We
hope
that
this
will
encourage
additional
cleanup
and
redevelopment
of
brownfields
properties.
One
of
the
things
that
I
want
to
point
out,
though,
is
that
All
Appropriate
Inquiries
is
not
the
end
but
rather
the
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
8
beginning
of
the
steps
necessary
for
CERCLA
liability
protection.

Property
owners
must
comply
with
the
All
Appropriate
Inquiries
aspect
of
the
new
brownfields
law
prior
to
purchasing
a
property
but
after
they
purchase
the
property
they
must
also
comply
with
several
ongoing
obligations.
These
include
things
like
stopping
ongoing
releases,
taking
reasonable
steps
to
ensure
that
contamination
is
contained
or
does
not
get
worse
in
order
to
ensure
public
safety,
and
compliance
with
all
existing
institutional
controls
or
land
use
restrictions
so
the
All
Appropriate
Inquiries
regulation
must
be
seen
in
the
context
of
the
total
package
of
liability
protections
afforded
by
the
statute.

Our
meeting
today
is
one
of
several
opportunities
to
comment
both
electronically
through
our
e­
docket
process
as
well
as
through
your
testimony
today
at
the
public
meeting.

As
Barry
mentioned,
we
had
a
public
meeting
in
September
at
the
Brownfields
Conference.
We
had
more
than
300
people
attending
that
public
meeting.
We're
having
this
public
meeting
today
here
in
Washington
and
our
additional
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
9
public
meeting
in
San
Francisco
will
be
held
on
November
18th.

Any
member
of
the
public
can
provide
written
comments
on
the
proposed
rule
and
they
can
be
submitted
to
us
today
and
will
be
submitted
through
our
regulatory
docket
process
or
they
can
be
provided
to
us
through
the
internet.

We
are
electronic
friendly
in
this
day
and
age
for
regulatory
development.

The
preamble
to
the
proposed
rule
that
was
published
in
the
"
Federal
Register"
and
is
posted
on
the
web
has
detailed
instructions
for
your
submission
of
written
comments.

Once
again,
I
want
to
say
how
much
we
value
your
input.
I
want
to
hear
all
of
your
comments
and
insights
and
issues
as
we
move
forward
to
a
final
development
of
the
rule.

Now
I
want
to
introduce
Patricia
Overmeyer,
who
will
go
over
the
ground
rules
for
the
meeting
today
before
we
get
started.

MS.
OVERMEYER:
Thanks,
Barry
and
Linda.

Just
a
couple
of
logistical
things
before
we
get
started.
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
10
Today's
meeting
is
a
public
meeting
and
will
be
recorded
by
our
court
reporter
and
a
transcript
will
be
provided
that
will
have
the
meeting
in
its
entirety.
We
will
provide
copies
of
the
transcript
on
our
website
and
in
the
public
docket.
Because
it's
being
recorded,
everybody
who
speaks
today
has
to
speak
into
the
microphone
so
that
our
court
reporter
can
hear
you
with
clarity
and
can
record.

We'll
begin
the
meeting
today
by
first
hearing
from
those
individuals
who
signed
up
previously
to
provide
comments.
After
we
hear
from
those
individuals
who
preregistered
we'll
open
it
up
to
the
floor
to
anybody
else
who
wants
to
make
comment.
We're
asking
that
people
try
to
limit
your
comments
to
seven
minutes
or
less
so
if
there
are
others
here
who
want
to
make
comment
there
will
be
sufficient
time.
We
are
scheduled
to
go
to
3:
00.
We'll
use
as
much
time
as
we
need
to,
to
make
sure
that
everybody
gets
their
chance
to
make
their
comments.

As
Linda
and
Barry
both
indicated,
in
addition
to
providing
public
comment
here
today,
which
will
go
into
the
docket
and
into
the
official
public
record
for
the
proposed
rule,
you
can
provide
us
with
written
comments
either
here
today­­
we'll
make
sure
that
they
get
into
the
docket
for
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
11
you­­
or
you
can
provide
your
written
comments
over
the
internet
and
directly
to
the
e­
docket
system.

There
are
copies
of
the
proposed
rule
in
the
back
of
the
room.
In
the
beginning
of
the
preamble
to
the
proposed
rule
there
are
instructions
for
how
to
submit
your
comments.

We
will
not
be
responding
to
your
comments
today.

We
have
to
wait
until
we
hear
all
comments
and
see
all
written
comments
that
were
submitted
to
the
docket.
EPA
does
intend
and
will
respond
to
every
comment
that
we
receive
here
today
and
in
writing.
We
will
respond
to
all
the
comments
in
writing
and
our
responses
will
be
included
into
the
docket
for
the
final
rule
on
All
Appropriate
Inquiries.

After
we
hear
all
comments
from
each
of
you
today,

if
there
are
questions
at
the
end
regarding
the
process
or
things
that
you'd
like
us
to
clarify,
we'll
try
to
do
that
but
we
can't
respond
to
any
individual
comments
until
we've
had
a
chance
to
read
and
consider
all
of
the
public
comments.
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
12
As
Linda
said,
this
is
our
second
public
meeting.

We'll
be
holding
a
third
public
meeting
in
San
Francisco,

California,
on
November
18th.

So
with
that,
I'll
just
call
each
of
the
people
who
have
pre­
registered
and
then
we'll
open
the
meeting
up
to
additional
comments.

The
first
person
is
Matthew
Grasper.
Is
Matthew
here?

Okay.
Mark
Morrel?

Richard
Young?

Once
again,
each
person
should
try
to
keep
their
comments
to
seven
minutes.

PUBLIC
TESTIMONY
OF
RICHARD
YOUNG
MR.
YOUNG:
Thank
you
very
much.
My
name
is
Richard
Young.
I'm
the
Executive
Director
of
the
National
Registry
of
Environmental
Professionals.
We're
located
in
Glenview,
Illinois,
and
we
are
a
professional
certification
organization.

I
would
like
to
bring
to
the
attention
of
the
committee
that
there
are
787
colleges
and
universities
that
offer
environmental
science
bachelor
degrees.
This
is
compared
to
72
universities
and
colleges
that
offer
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
13
environmental
engineering
degrees.
There
are
33
disciplines­­
33
engineering
disciplines
in
which
people
may
obtain
their
professional
engineer's
license.
And
this
includes­­
I
won't
read
the
whole
list
but
this
includes
agricultural
engineering,
ceramics
engineering,
ocean
engineering,
and
many
more
that
are
not
related
at
all
to
the
environment
but
yet
would
be
qualified
to
sit
for
the
professional
engineer's
license,
then
have
three
years
of
work
experience
in
the
environmental
field,
and
qualify
as
an
environmental
professional.

Likewise,
there
are
18
geology
disciplines
which
include
such
things
as
petroleum
geologists,

hydrogeologists
geochemists,
coal
geologists.
Again
people
who­

­
these
are
separate
degrees
that
are
available
from
universities.
They
would
be
able
to
take
and
qualify
for
their
professional
geologist
license,
come
up
with
three
years
of
some
kind
of
environmental
experience
and
be
qualified
to
practice
at
a
brownfield
site.

Based
on
these
disciplines,
someone
may
obtain
a
PE
or
PG
license
and
then
be
considered
by
EPA
as
being
qualified
to
conduct
environmental
work
with
only
three
years
of
environmental
experience.
These
are
people,
I'm
MILLER
REPORTING
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saying,
that
have
no
experience.
They
have
had
nothing
in
their
school
year
or
nothing
in
their
work
practice
afterwards
and
they
do
not
have
to
take
any
single
question­

­
they
do
not
have
to
pass
any
single
question
on
their
PE
license
or
their
PG
license
and
yet
they
can
be
considered
as
qualified.

In
1987,
or
I
should
say
since
1987,
our
organization,
the
National
Registry
of
Environmental
Professionals,
has
credentialed
approximately
15,000
individuals
to
be
environmental
managers
and
environmental
property
assessors.

Our
programs,
depending
on
which
one,
the
REPA,

the
Registered
Environmental
Property
Assessor,
requires
a
bachelor's
degree,
requires
four
years
of
environmental
property
assessment.

An
environmental
manager,
on
the
other
hand,
who
manages
environmental
projects
such
as
brownfields
projects,

requires
five
years
of
environmental
practice
plus
their
bachelor's
degree.

The
Resolution
Trust
Corporation
with
its
responsibility
for
billions
of
dollars
in
land
value
has
recognized
that
requirement
and
to
ensure
that
individuals
MILLER
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remain
current
with
their
changes
in
environmental
technology
and
processes
they
have
to
maintain
their
proficiency
by
completing
a
minimum
of
15
continuing
education
hours
annually.

I'm
asking
the
committee
to
level
the
playing
field.
There
have
been
thousands
of
resumes
that
NREP
has
reviewed
from
people
who
want
to
be
considered
as
qualified
to
practice
and
we
have
rejected
a
large
number
of
them.

As
the
economy
has
shifted,
major
shifts
in
employment
with
engineers
in
aerospace,
chemical,
pulp
and
paper
and
other
fields,
understandably,
have
attempted
to
find
work
and
shift
their
work,
and
most
of
them
over
to
the
environmental
field.

The
National
Registry
of
Environmental
Professionals,
along
with
the
Florida
Environmental
Assessors
Association,
and
also
in
conjunction
with
the
National
Association
of
Environmental
Risk
Assessors
or
Risk
Auditors,
I
should
say,
agree
with
the
EPA
there
are
too
many
people
in
the
environmental
field
with
inadequate
environmental
education
and
little
or
no
practical
field
experience.
This
is
the
reason
why
certification
programs
MILLER
REPORTING
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INC.
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have
been
developed
to
credential
people
for
conducting
BSA,

Phase
I/
Phase
II
work.

A
state
licensed
engineer
or
geologist
cannot
be
considered
as
being
equivalent
to
a
bachelor,
master
or
doctorate
degree
in
environmental
education
unless
they've
received
comparable
training
in
environmental
science.
It's
a
false
conclusion
that
all
professional
engineers
and
geologists
are
knowledgeable
about
environmental
matters.

It
would
be
fair
to
state
that
engineers
and
geologists
with
three
years
of
verified
work
experience
would
be
comparable
to
somebody
with
an
environmental
science
degree
who
also
had
three
years
of
practical
work
experience
and
the
same
thing
could
be
true,
also,
of
five
years
work
experience
if
EPA
so
decided
to
view
it
in
that
manner.

Because
ASTM
has
created
a
list
of
procedures
for
conducting
Phase
I
and
Phase
II
environmental
site
assessments,
virtually
anybody
who
is
capable
of
following
those
procedures
should
be
considered
or
could
be
considered
as
an
environmental
professional.

Today
there
are
many
small
consulting
firms
whose
business
will
be
hurt
by
EPA's
proposed
rule
because
they
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
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cannot
meet
the
proposed
experience
and
education
requirements.
Such
firms,
these
small
little
firms,
are
the
backbone.
They
really
are
the
backbone
of
today's
business
in
conducting
Phase
I
and
Phase
II
work
for
residential
and
commercial
property.

More
consulting
firms
are
destined
to
be
hurt
financially
by
the
AAI
rule.
While
EPA
does
not
believe
that
the
definition
of
environmental
professional
will
go
beyond
the
AAI
rule,
it
is
destined
and,
as
so
many
times
before,
that
it
will
and
it
will
go
and
be
accepted
as
a
definition
of
an
environmental
professional
in
other
laws.

As
proposed,
the
AAI
rule
will
drive
up
the
market
for
consulting
engineers
and
geologists.
It
will
place
them
on
a
pedestal
of
being
a
specialist
who
can
and
will
command
higher
pay
for
their
work.
From
an
economic
standpoint
it
can
be
viewed
as­­
that
it
can
be
expected
that
all
salaries
on
a
brownfields
project
will
also
rise.
The
other
trades
will
ask
for
more
money
and
it
will
cost
more
to
complete
the
work.

Very
quickly
and
not
boring
you
with
all
the
details
now
because
we
will
provide
that
in
written
testimony
as
I
say,
the
total
estimated
number
of
MILLER
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environmental
professionals
nationwide
without
engineering
degrees
but
practicing
in
the
environmental
field
is
1,120,584.
The
total
estimated
Black
professionals
in
the
environmental
field
not
being
engineers
is
100,853.
We
go
on
through
also
the
Hispanic,
the
Asian,
the
female
and
the
total
minorities
who
are
non­
engineers
practicing
in
the
environmental
field
now
today
is
705,968.
This
will
have
an
impact
on
them.
A
total
impact
on
yearly
wages
which
averaged
on
the
way
low
side
of
being
$
39,505,223,188.00.

By
the
way,
these
total
environmental
professionals,
these
non­
engineers
practicing
in
the
environmental
field,
as
a
percentage
of
the
nation's
total
employed,
is
6.8
thousand.
If
we
are
to
take
and
begin
leaving
them
out
and
being
recognized
as
equals
in
this
field,
this
will
have
a
dramatic
effect
on
our
nation's
economy.
These
numbers,
by
the
way,
are
not
ones
that
I
made
up.
They
are
there
for
you
to
see
from
the
Bureau
of
Labor
Statistics.

The
law
is
too
stringent.
It
forces
everybody,
in
effect,
to
become
a
professional
engineer
or
a
geologist
when
they
are
not­­
professional
geologist,
pardon
me­­
when
it's
not­­
when
it's
an
established
standard
for
all
other
MILLER
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INC.
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EPA.
Providing
or
establishing
professional
engineers
and
geologists
as
a
standard
for
brownfields
is
not
appropriate
at
this
venue.
A
better
venue
for
this
issue
is
outside
the
brownfields
law
and
in
front
of
a
U.
S.
EPA
administrative
law
judge
when
the
case
arises.

The
standard
in
its
present
form
does
not
protect
the
public
interest
regarding
professional
engineers
and
geologists.
There
is
no
level
of
enforcement
or
back
in
qualification
or
back
in
qualification
process
delineated
in
the
law.
The
law
in
its
current
form
would
give
government's
approval
to
a
profession
without
enforcement
or
qualification
to
the
public
by
restricting
it
to
two
professions,
which
harms
the
public
good.
It
can
be
argued
that
U.
S.
EPA
does
not
have
the
legal
authority
to
decide
who
is
an
environmental
professional.
There
is
no
regulation
that
provides
U.
S.
EPA
with
authority
to
regulate
a
profession
or
endorse
a
profession.

The
regulation
in
its
current
form
violates
states'
rights
to
protect
individuals­­
to
regulate
professions
at
an
individual
level.
There
isn't
a
federally
licensed
engineer
or
geologist.
It's
all
done
by
the
state
level.
If
the
federal
government
provides
a
level
of
MILLER
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enforcement
they
are
effectively
taking
away
power
and
funding
from
states
to
regulate
their
professions.

The
law
in
its
current
form
violates
U.
S.

antitrust
laws.
The
regulation
reduces
the
competition
by
providing
preferred
economic
treatment
of
engineers
and
geologists.

As
noted
by
the
Bureau
of
Labor
Statistics,
other
environmental
professionals
compromise
a
total
portion
of
the­­
a
significant
portion
of
the
economy
and
employment.

Because
of
economic
preferential
treatment,
geologists
and
engineers
could
effectively
create
a
monopoly
over
all
brownfields
projects
and
set
unfair
price
controls
that
would
impact
the
real
estate
market.

MS.
OVERMEYER:
Could
you
try
to
wrap
it
up
within
one
minute?

MR.
YOUNG:
I'm
sorry,
one
more?

MS.
OVERMEYER:
Could
you
try
to
wrap
it
up
within
one
minute?
One
more
minute.

MR.
YOUNG:
All
right.
In
my
closing
remarks,

although
it
sounds
like
I
may
not
be
on
EPA's
side,
we
are.

We
want
to
work
with
you
folks
directly
as
much
as
we
can
and
as
much
as
you'll
let
us.
Therefore,
as
a
public
MILLER
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service
to
EPA
and
the
public
because
we
have
co­
sponsored
in
the
past
a
number
of
events
with
you,
EPA
has
moved
forward
and
designed
a
self­
maintained
on­
line
registry
for
individuals
meeting
U.
S.
EPA
published
qualifications.
This
is
a
big
program.
This
is
mainframe
we're
talking
about,

not
desk
top.
And
this
program
will
allow
EPA
to
have
people
enter
their
qualifications
into
this
program
where
people
can
view,
the
public
and
EPA
can
view
all
of
the
qualifications
of
these
individuals
who
claim
to
have
the
necessary
knowledge
and
experience
to
work
on
a
brownfield
site.

And
it
does
have
a
web
site
that
is
on­
line
at
the
moment
for
you
to
view
and
this
is
fully
manipulatable
by
EPA.
You
can
go
to
http://
brownfields.
infocritical.
com.

So
I
emphasize
to
you
again
this
is
a
free
service
to
EPA.
We
want
to
know
who
is
out
there,
too.
The
public
deserves
to
know
who
is
out
there.
Thank
you
very
much.

MS.
OVERMEYER:
Thank
you.

Michael
Munson?
Michael
Mittelholzer?

PUBLIC
TESTIMONY
OF
MICHAEL
MITTELHOLZER
MR.
MITTELHOLZER:
Thank
you.
I'll
try
to
be
brief.
MILLER
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INC.
735
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E.
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As
an
unabashed
Red
Sox
fan,
I've
spent
the
last
three
days
on
a
good
combination
of
caffeine,
fear
and
hope,

not
necessarily
in
equal
measure
so
I
will
make
my
remarks
brief.

Good
afternoon.
My
name
is
Michael
Mittelholzer.

I
am
a
Director
of
Regulatory
Affairs
for
the
National
Association
of
Home
Builders.
I
am
here
today
to
comment
on
the
proposed
rule
on
behalf
of
the
National
Association
of
Home
Builders.
NAHB's
membership
consists
of
over
215,000
member
firms
who
develop
land,
construct,
design
and
supply
the
nation's
residential
and
light
commercial
construction
industry.
NAHB's
membership
consists
of
over
850
state
and
local
chapters
in
all
50
states,
Puerto
Rico
and
here
in
the
District
of
Columbia.
NAHB
members
have
a
direct
interest
in
the
outcome
of
this
rulemaking
since
our
members
investigate,
acquire
and
develop
properties
in
both
urban
and
rural
settings
that
may
have
some
level
of
environmental
contamination
due
to
the
prior
use.

NAHB
supports
the
efforts
by
EPA,
our
nation's
governors
and
mayors,
community
groups
and
nonprofits
to
promote
the
environmental
sound
re­
use
of
former
brownfield
sites.
NAHB
MILLER
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views
the
proposed
rule
developed
by
EPA
via
a
negotiated
rulemaking
process
as
a
critical
step
in
that
process.

NAHB
as
a
party
to
EPA's
negotiated
rulemaking,

which
helped
develop
this
rule,
agreed,
as
all
parties
agreed,
as
all
parties
to
this
process
agreed
to
participate
with
the
understanding
that
all
parties
would
support
the
consensus
based
outcome
of
this
negotiated
rulemaking.

Therefore,
NAHB
does
support
the
proposed
rule.

On
behalf
of
NAHB,
I
would
like
to
thank
the
staff
of
EPA
who
worked
on
this
proposed
rule
along
with
other
stakeholders,
advisors
and
consultants,
who
all
worked
cooperatively
throughout
this
process.

However,
before
I
discuss
some
of
the
merits
of
the
proposed
rule
for
the
land
development
and
construction
industry,
it
is
important
to
remember
the
importance
of
today's
proposed
rule
to
the
implementation
of
a
significant
environmental
statute,
the
Small
Business
Liability
and
Brownfields
Revitalization
Act,
commonly
referred
to
as
the
Brownfields
Law.
NAHB
supports
the
proposed
rule
for
three
main
reasons:

First:
The
proposed
rule
implements
a
key
provision
of
the
recently
passed
brownfields
law
that
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clarifies
what
specific
actions
a
landowner
must
take
prior
to
taking
title
to
a
property
to
determine
the
potential
presence
of
environmental
contamination.

Second:
The
proposed
rule
is
consistent
with
the
criteria
established
by
Congress
under
the
recently
enacted
brownfields
law.
I
believe
that's
found
in
Section
223(
d).

Three:
Promulgation
of
the
rule
will
provide
landowners
with
the
means
to
demonstrate
they
qualify
for
the
important
federal
liability
protections
CERCLA
Super
Fund
granted
under
the
brownfields
law.

Throughout
the
negotiated
rulemaking
process
NAHB
had
four
primary
objectives:

One:
To
ensure
the
rule
is
consistent
with
congressional
intent
as
defined
in
the
brownfields
law.

Second:
That
the
All
Appropriate
Inquiry
regulation
would
be
consistent
to
the
extent
allowed
under
the
statute
with
accepted
commercial
practices
such
as
the
ASTM
Phase
I
Site
Assessment.
Furthermore,
the
final
rule
must
not
result
in
significant
disruptions
either
in
the
cost
of
conducting
an
environmental
assessment
or
unnecessarily
disrupt
the
market
by
removing
capable
MILLER
REPORTING
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INC.
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environmental
consultants
who
are
currently
conducting
environmental
site
assessments.

I'd
also
add
as
a
side
bar
we
have
recently
learned
that
EPA
is
working
with
ASTM
staff
on
updating
the
current
Phase
I
Site
Assessment
per
changes
in
the
rule.

NAHB
fully
supports
that
effort
and
will
submit
comments
to
that.

Three:
Provide
clarity
to
the
regulated
community
on
what
specific
steps
constitute
All
Appropriate
Inquiry.

And
the
final
objective
for
NAHB
was
to
ensure
the
concerns
of
the
public,
state
and
local
governments,

nonprofits
and
the
environmental
community
are
addressed
through
this
rulemaking,
again
to
the
extent
their
concerns
are
consistent
with
the
criteria
established
by
Congress
for
this
rule.

NAHB
believes
EPA's
proposed
rule
is
consistent,

as
I
mentioned,
with
the
criteria
established
by
Congress
and
while,
as
I
mentioned,
NAHB
supports
the
rule
as
a
whole,
NAHB
does
have
concerns
about
specific
elements
within
this
proposed
rule
particularly
as
it
relates
to
implementation.
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
26
First:
Under
Section
312.23,
"
Interviews
with
past
and
present
owners,
operators
and
occupants,"
NAHB
fully
supports
and
recognizes
the
need
to
accurately
assess
the
use
of
a
property.
NAHB
is
concerned
that
the
additional
requirements
found
under
this
section,

specifically
312.23(
d),
entitled
"
Additional
Requirements
for
Abandoned
Properties,"
which
is
specifically
an
obligation
to
locate
and
interview
neighbors
of
abandoned
properties
in
addition
to
all
the
other
requirements
found
under
312.23,
such
as
reviewing
all
historical
sources,

reviewing
all
environmental
means
on
the
property,
and
reviewing
all
state
and
local
records
on
the
property.

Our
concern
specifically,
though,
is
just
with
312.23(
d)
in
that
we
feel
it
is
an
additional
administrative
burden
for
perspective
purchasers
that
could
have
the
unintended
impact
of
discouraging
redevelopment
of
abandoned
properties
that,
frankly,
are
already
challenging
properties
to
redevelop.

Number
two:
The
definition
of
an
environmental
professional
found
under
312.10,
and
I'm
specifically
referring
to
subpart
2(
i)
and
(
ii),
and
I
apologize
for
the
specificity
there,
this
subsection
of
the
proposed
rule
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
27
creates
two
different
standards
regarding
the
numbers
of
years
of
direct
working
experience
required
for
a
professional
engineer,
PE,
and
that's
three
years,
versus
consultants
with
all
other
relevant
environmental
science
backgrounds,
which
requires
them
to
have
five
years
of
professional
experience.
Also,
this
category
includes
engineers
who
lack
a
PE's
license.
NAHB's
concern
is
the
proposed
rule
might
have
the
unintended
effect
of
preventing
capable
environmental
consultants
either
now
or
in
the
future
from
qualifying
as
an
environmental
professional.

NAHB
urges
interested
stakeholders,
as
we've
heard
here
today,
to
provide
information
during
the
comment
period
on
the
potential
impact
of
this
provision
to
the
environmental
consulting
industry.

Finally,
I
want
to
thank
EPA
for
holding
this
public
hearing
today
on
this
important
rule
and
for
allowing
NAHB
to
participate
in
the
negotiated
rulemaking
process.

As
stated
in
above,
NAHB
does
support
the
All
Appropriate
Inquiry
Rule
as
proposed.
Overall,
NAHB
views
the
proposed
rule
as
a
positive
and
important
step
towards
implementing
the
recently
enacted
federal
brownfields
law.

NAHB
looks
forward
to
working
with
the
EPA
and
all
other
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
28
stakeholders
interested
in
bringing
former
brownfield
sites
back
to
reproductive
use­­
productive
use.
Sorry.
Thank
you.

MS.
OVERMEYER:
Thank
you.

I
should
ask
whether
Matthew
Grasper
is
here.

Mark
Morrel?
That's
a
no.
And
Michael
Munson?
Okay.

With
that,
I'll
ask
if
anybody
else
wishes
to
make
a
statement
or
a
comment?
Does
anyone
have
any
questions?

MR.
MORREL:
It
was
indicated
that
EPA
is
working
with
ASTM
to
revise
the
E1527
standard.
Will
EPA
issue
a
revised
proposed
regulation
or
will
that
be
a
final
regulation
once
the
revisions
are
made?

MS.
OVERMEYER:
The
ASTM
E1527
standard,
which
is
being
developed
by
ASTM
and
which
EPA
is
working
with
them
to
develop,
is
not
a
regulation.
It's
a
voluntary
consensus
standard
developed
by
ASTM.
The
effort
that
Michael
Mittelholzer
spoke
to
was
that
EPA
staff
are
working
with
ASTM
to
revise
the
current
E1527
standard
to
be
compliant
with
the
rule.

The
effort
at
this
point
is
to
make
it
compliant
with
the
proposed
rule.
As
we
go
through
the
public
comment
period
and
review
and
consider
public
comments,
ASTM
remains
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
29
diligent
in
their
efforts.
They
have
told
us
that
they
will
continue
to
work
with
us
to
see
that
the
standard
is
then
compliant
with
what
we
come
up
with
as
a
final
rule.

The
idea
there
is
not
to
disrupt
the
market
but
to
allow
people
to
continue
to
look
to
the
ASTM
standard
as
guidance
and
to
comply
with
the
standard
and
the
rule.

Are
there
other
questions
or
comments?
Yes?

MR.
THOMPSON:
Do
you
have
any
idea
when
you're
going
to
make
a
final
of
this
rule?

MS.
OVERMEYER:
The
question
is
does
EPA
now
have
any
idea
when
we
may
go
final
with
the
rule.
It's
hard
for
us
to
estimate
at
this
point
in
time
without
having
seen
all
of
the
comments,
the
number
and
depth
and
breadth
of
comments
that
we
could
get
on
the
proposed
rule.
The
comment
period
is
open
until
November
30th.
We
also
have
another
public
meeting
to
do.
We're
hopeful
that
within
a
year
or
so
we
will
be
able
to
get
the
final
rule
out
but
again
it
will
depend
on
the
extent
and
the
number
of
public
comments
that
we
get
on
the
proposed
rule.

Other
questions
or
comments?

MR.
MORREL:
The
EPA
rule
uses
the
term
in
the
performance
standard
of
"
reasonable
time
and
cost"
but
that
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
30
terminology
is
not
in
the
statute.
Where
did
EPA
develop
or
how
do
you
decide
that
that
term
would
be
included
in
the
statute
and
how
does
it
define
"
reasonable
time
and
cost?"

MS.
OVERMEYER:
The
negotiated
rule
making
committee
thought
it
was
important
to
develop
a
standard
around
performance
factors
to
ensure
that
the
proposed
rule
or
the
standard
itself
did
not
come
out
to
be
a
mere
checklist
so
that
we
could
use
the
experience
and
the
judgment
of
the
environmental
professionals
in
conducting
the
All
Appropriate
Inquiries
requirement
and
so
the
phrase
that
you're
referring
to
is
part
of
the
performance
factors
to
allow
for
some
judgment
in
the
use
of
the
experience
of
the
environmental
professionals.
The
proposed
rule
does
not
have
a
definition
of
that
but
allows
for
the
environmental
professional
to
use
their
judgment.

Other
questions
or
comments?

Well,
thank
you,
everyone,
for
coming
out
on
a
dreary
day.
And,
as
I
said
before,
the
public
comment
period
for
the
proposed
rule
remains
open
until
November
30th
and
we
look
forward
to
all
of
your
written
comments.

Thank
you.
MILLER
REPORTING
CO.,
INC.
735
8th
STREET,
S.
E.
WASHINGTON,
D.
C.
20003­
2802
(
202)
546­
6666
31
[
Whereupon,
at
1:
44
p.
m.,
the
proceedings
were
adjourned.]

­
­
­
