Virtual Public Listening Sessions on EPA's draft Lead Strategy to Reduce Lead Exposures and Disparities in U.S. Communities
Docket ID: EPA-HQ-OLEM-2021-0762
R5 Public Listening Session 
Date: February 17, 2022
Start Time: 6:00 PM CT
Record of Public Comments
(To view a recording of the listening session, please visit: https://youtu.be/YV6YVqMiJWw)

32:51
[Carolyn Marsh, Save Whiting and Neighbors] All right, I'm going to start speaking, I live in Whiting, which is at the shore of Southern lake Michigan in Northwest Indiana. Whiting, Hammond, and East Chicago and Gary are under a federal Grand Calumet River area of concern.
33:07
This AOC is under the Indiana Department of Environmental Management.
33:13
IDEM established a remedial action plan to implement a remediation plan for the Grand Calumet river area next to Lake Michigan, which is a dense industrial corridor, including oil refinery steel mills chemical plants heavy metal recycling plants trucking
33:33
companies and confined disposal facilities. IDEM appoints a Care Committee (CARE).
33:41
This State Committee has been in existence for over 20 years, it is composed of a combination of government, industry contractors and NGO representatives that are funded by the federal federal grants.
33:56
We need local grassroots activists, on the committee.
34:02
The Care Committee is involved and remediation, however, one of my concerns is how can there be remediation and restoration. When there is ongoing air and water pollution industry regularly violates their air and water permits.
34:21
The U.S. EPA started a lead cleanup project in the city wide in the City of Whiting and the City of Hammond on residential church and public properties. The U.S. EPA needs to continue the cleanup of lead contaminated sites caused by former smelter.
34:40
properties. Hammond is doing a voluntary clean up but with federal funds of remaining properties, many citizens do not trust him a new properly completed clean up because they are not transparent and have not made their plan available to the public.
34:58
IDEM study George lake where the former smelter plant existed in the summer of 2021 and has yet to release their findings to the public.
35:08
We need public comment periods, and lead cleanup projects in the proposal stage before they are started, I support goal number one, I support approach, number one, thank you.
35:51
[Juanita Greene, Toledo Lucas County Lead Poisoning Commission] Thank you very much for having this session tonight. My name is Juanita Greene.
35:57
I am the Vice President of the Toledo Lucas County Lead Poisoning Commission. Our Lead Poisoning Commission has done a great job we've gotten all partners together, and we do have an ordinance that was passed by the City of Toledo, but within that ordinance what our coalition
36:13
is doing is making sure that properties are registered, and that landlords understand the importance of making sure that they get a mixtape certificate.
36:24
My concern only and I do support gold number one. In fact that goal is exactly what we want the collaboration of working with the federal government, and with other partners, and also the goal of educating our community more about Mac.
36:41
But my question was in reference to your public comments.
36:44
Are we getting comments from those families that have lead poisoning. Are we listening to some of their concerns?
36:54
And also, in reference to their children that have been affected that cannot be reversed, what services are we offering them in reference to some of the children not being able to do their schoolwork and do other things that have hampered them because
37:12
of the poisoning.
37:20
Thank you.
39:21
[Patricia Walter, Private Citizen] Yes, thank you. Thank you. I'm still learning my new computer.
39:50
a little bit.
39:54
We were of importance.
39:58
I know for me, chemicals,
40:06
because
40:12
we need to bring people individually, people visiting communities. I'm
40:25
listening to people.
40:28
Physically affected by local problems was, was very
40:38
filter for folks, so that they can easily get
40:48
reusable water bottles because we know
40:53
municipal water to facilitate the purchase walk
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by.
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Easy water testing information so that when folks are concerned about their own water
41:19
community volunteer food pantry.
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And there were 700 families community was
41:31
included Asian polish, all sorts of different parts so you can't use famished language,
41:44
but also to monitor the silver. all of these things easily and readily available.
41:51
And that's why, also for the count is huge.
41:59
This is great, but this has to be expanded upon award level. So thank you very much.
43:23
[Lisette Montanez, Private Citizen in Perimeter] My name is Lisette Montanez, and I actually live here in the Robertsdale community, which is partially Hammond, we are Hammond, and we reside we share the community with Whiting, very small, we're stuck in the middle.
43:39
And basically, I see the two people already covered much of what my concerns are, as a resident here. I believe that we were offered a superfund, because of the dire situation that we have, EPA has already came out in the past a couple years before for
44:01
prior to COVID.
44:02
They did find some things.
44:05
I would be writing to you guys further on this because there are some documents in meetings that I did attend where I'd be able to share some of that and attach it.
44:16
A lot of work was being done here. And for some reason, it came to a halt. EPA did help tremendously. I want to say that there was about 600 properties within both areas in total, that were being worked on and found contaminated.
44:37
So, um, we have a bit of everything, air, water, soil pollution, we have it all. All everything on the list that you have from eight to eat.
44:48
We have it the emissions.
44:50
We are probably the main polluters, but I'm not familiar with the other areas in your region.
44:59
I am a resident here, I'm very concerned about the pollution.
45:04
But I, I leave that for to Carolyn Marsh she is very, very competent in that she spoke earlier, and she's very good at speaking on things like that. I just happen to care deeply about the community and the fact that we're breathing this.
45:23
Some people don't smell it as much. I wasn't born and raised here so I I smell it more.
45:31
And, and I see the effects that it has on possibly the students in the school, the behavior problems are at a high here.
45:41
We are right by refineries and a polluter that has been closed down that I believe qualifies for the Superfund and the help. Yes, they are attempting to use federal funding in one of the cities.
46:00
And I don't think that that would be the best remedy. There might be some conflict of interest in that when there's a state to taking care of their own situations as opposed to somebody like yourself, who's, you know, you guys know what you're
46:17
doing. And if the money and the funding is there for you guys to help us complete this safely for future generations. Then, let's do it. You know, there's no reason to cover up anything that could possibly be missed.
46:34
I think that you guys are excellent at what you do and that we really need your help here in the Whiting Hammond community, most especially by George Lake.
46:45
There's some, there's been a lot of problems.
47:13
[Brandi Crawford-Johnson, Private Citizen] Good evening. My name is Brandi Crawford-Johnson, I'm an environmental justice activist from Michigan. My family was poisoned by lead paint, and 2013, and Kalamazoo, Michigan, 85% of the housing stock is built before 1978 and contains blood pain.
47:31
I applied to have my home lead abated through the lead safe program through Michigan and they sent out contractors I hired named Michael Feller and Joseph Feller from Midwest Builders.
47:41
to abate my home of lead.
47:43
Michael Feller was very experienced and appointed by the Governor to be in the Lead Poison Prevention Commission. My family stayed at a hotel for three months while they lead abated our home.
47:53
When it was finished I received a lead clearance certificate from Chevrolet lead inspection seeing my home was safe to move in. Soon after we moved back in I started finding old paint chips that were supposed to have been cleaned up.
48:04
I called AAA Lead Inspections and told them to come back out. They gave me a new lead clearance saying it was not lead safe, I was terrified and had no more money for a hotel.
48:14
Soon after I got a call from a compliance officer from the State of Michigan, saying the company got violated for nine unsafe work violations because a risk assessor called in a complaint.
48:26
My home was found to have 12 times the lead contamination then before my house got lot of aided Michigan Department of Health and Human Services still let this company work, and lead poisoned children's homes after this.
48:38
They never notified any families that were abated before mine, that this company use unsafe work practices, and had their homes retested, I beg them to notify them of their risks.
48:48
I still worry about Michigan children crawling on floors and homes lead aided by this company that was working with this agency for 15 years.
48:57
I had to have RSPP levels checked for lead which was higher than our finger prick test because the blood test, MDHHS provides are not accurate. There is no safe level of lead.
49:08
When the doctors retest lead poisoned children months after exposure, the lead will have left their blood and deposited into their bones. That is why most children are tested when they're tested after the exposure it shows that they are negative.
49:20
After one to two months the lead enters your bone which it stays for most of your life. I volunteered for a bone test study for Purdue University to test my true level.
49:30
I learned that this is the only accurate way to test for lead poisoning.
49:34
EPA Region 5 must not continue to work with MDHHS and give them grants for their lead safe program. If they have unsafe workers are being led poisoned children's homes.
49:43
Eagle has also not properly regulated lead in the air from graphic packaging and Kalamazoo. EPA is funded Eagle and MDHHS for decades to protect the health of Michigan families from lead hazards and they have failed.
49:56
EPA must take over for these agencies, and do an investigation into all their past and current operations. Eagle and MDHHS are responsible for the Flint and Ben Harbor lead water crisis, the Kalamazoo air pollution crisis.
50:09
and as far as I'm concerned, the lead save homes abatement crisis. EPA cannot protect children from lead poisoning. If the programs they are funding are defeating the purpose of reducing lead exposure and children.
50:21
but, in turn, helping to poison Michigan families with lead. Thank you.
50:46
[Marisa Rowden, S.W.A.N.] Hi, I am also from Whiting, Indiana. I was born and raised here and have recently been involved, along with Carolyn and Lissette.
50:59
I'm uh, to try to get some understanding as to how, as a community, and as a grassroots agency, we can work with EPA and IDEM to try to
51:17
get some of this exposure in the water in the soil and in the air, are two levels that should be regulated accordingly. I'm currently looking at your goal one objective fee.
51:37
And according to the Hammond water quality data from 9/1/2020.
51:44
The lead and copper rule has been violated. According to non compliance from 7/1/2020 to 12/3/2020. It shows that the corrosion control fail to consistently control, the aggressive nature of the drinking water for the period indicated likely increasing
52:04
the lead and copper in the drinking water.
52:06
The Whiting Water Department also has an older, a report stating that we are at the tap level, 8.9, which I think the goal is 1.0 to 201.0.
52:27
And what I'm wondering is, are we going to fall under
52:34
this $15 million, billion dollar grant money to help us with these older properties in this legacy area where we're trying to get the soil cleaner, we're trying to get the ambient air clean up.
52:50
And now, there have been schools in the Robertsdale area which is Hammond area connecting to Whiting where the children were drinking lead out of faucets the school, the faucets had to be turned off.
53:02
Are we going to be able to count on the EPA to try to help us figure how our local government agencies are using funds, stating that they will be able to have more correct proper cleanup than the EPA will be able to, and we are not seeing any transparency.
53:26
With regards to the lead levels in all areas of our environment, my worries are for the future generations.
53:36
The fact that we have lived in this legacy lead and that we know better now to continue to leave legacy lead and continue to pollute with light at this time.
53:47
Thank you.
54:03
[David Jacobs, National Center for Healthy Housing/UIC] Hey, thank you. First for EPA for conducting your listening session. And before I get into my remarks, I just wanted to highlight the remarks from the parents from Michigan.
54:17
This is on EPA we should make sure this work gets done properly, we know how to do it.
54:23
It should be done properly and if it's not need to take steps to make sure that it's been remediated correctly.
54:30
The National Center for Healthy Housing. I'm also a professor at the University of Illinois in Chicago, but the Center I speak on behalf of the Center tonight.
54:40
We are the nation's preeminent authority on lead poisoning prevention, and other healthy housing issues to cut to the chase, I think, Dr. Waterhouse asked for specific recommendations, and there are four main goals in the, in the EPA strategy.
54:57
So first is reducing community exposures to lead but we think it should be eliminating lead poisoning as a major public health problem. It's not about reducing it's about eliminating, we should take a primary prevention approach to this problem.
55:12
Identifying community. The second one is identifying communities with high value exposures.
55:17
That's fine we already know where these communities are we should remediate the sources and pathways of exposure.
55:23
These communities have been already identified the major challenge today is to ramp up remediation to make sure that exposures prevented communicating more effectively the third one should be about building local capacity to identify and remediate lead
55:40
sources and pathways lead capacity is a local capacity is a barrier that can be eliminated.
55:47
The research agenda, agenda should be focused and I'm a researcher should be more focused on eliminating barriers to broad implementation It was supposed to prevention.
55:57
So in brief, the strategy I think does not adequately focus on primary prevention which means acting before, children are already exposed, we should take action before their hand.
56:11
But most importantly, perhaps, the document doesn't contain an interagency budget, but it should you get what you pay for in this world and the main reason we're still listening to lead problems like in this strategy, today is not that standards are inadequate
56:27
or not that we don't have adequate knowledge or not that there's poor public education or not that we don't know which sources and pathways and most important or not that enough kids are being getting tested.
56:39
The main problem is that we as a nation have not taken this to scale. So what does that mean there are three areas.
56:47
This modern era is in lead poisoning prevention I'm running out of time so I won't go through that.
56:55
But basically it means that EPA and allied agency should be taking a remediation to scale the Interagency Task Force needs to be at a cabinet level, not at the staff level, and music command was strategy from the White House.
57:12
And finally I need to highlight enforcement. Nothing happens without enforcement. So if we don't get supplemental environmental projects, and the Trump Administration rule that prevented sidesteps and being retracted, then we won't be able to accomplish
57:30
it so supplemental environmental projects should be allowed. They should not be prevented. And I know that's the Department of Justice issue but EPA and had have authority to deal with that and I encourage you to take steps with the Department of Justice
57:48
to make sure that supplemental environmental projects. We stand ready at the National. I'm sorry. To finalize its lead strategy. Thank you very much. Thank you.
58:15
[Yvonka Hall, Northeast Ohio Black Health Coalition] Hi, I'm Yvonka Hall. I am the Executive Director of the Northeast Ohio Black Health Coalition, but I'm also the President of Clash, which is the Cleveland Lead Advocates for Safe Housing. Lead is public enemy number one, let's be clear. Across the lifespan
58:29
from birth to death,
58:30
lead goes from your blood to the bones to your organs, when we're talking about our infant mortality more turn maternal mortality rates, and our kidney failure rates, we cannot underestimate the impact of lead poisoning.
58:44
We also have to make sure that the EPA understands that within standards that they also have to have nutrition standards around lunches and mill mill options, not only in schools, but in juvenile justice facilities, we have a number of young people who
58:58
who are in juvenile justice facilities that are lead poisoned. And because of the fact that they're in these facilities, a lot of them are not getting the nutrients that they need in order for some of the, the land to be removed from their body just through
59:13
nutrition alone. So we cannot underestimate the importance of nutrition and having proper nutrition standards for our young people that are in school and house and juvenile justice facilities.
59:26
The damage to the brain and nervous systems. I'm severe mental and physical health impacts. Children arm throughout the course of their lifespan and so we have to understand that the issues that we're facing in urban America that our problem is lead in
59:46
that we have to make sure that we're working together collaboratively public private and community members and grassroots agencies in order for us to do something about this.
59:59
We can no longer work in silos and that is one of the problems that we have. So when we talk about this whole thing around working collaboratively, that's not happening across the board and we see it so often in Cleveland, that is one of the reasons why
60:12
we had to form clash, is because we had a city government that was inadequate in addressing the issue that was impacting the community. And so the community, how to actually do what they do best, which is clash with the government, in order for us to
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the services that we needed so desperately for our children. Also for rental housing we have to push in Cleveland 90% of our homes were built before 1978.
60:38
We have to make sure that we're pushing for enforcement of rental housing standards set standards regarding, let's say certifications. We have to require the city's not stopped the practice of going to houses.
60:54
And when finding out that families no longer living there. Closing cases that has to stop. They should stop funding cities that are doing that, Cleveland is one of those cities that has done that that has been their practice for a long time.
61:07
They're closing cases without telling families, what's going on to those children in those houses. And so for us, making sure that we address this is so important to all of us and this is public enemy number one.
61:23
Thank you so much.
61:58
[Betty Cantley, Ohio Lead Free Kids Coalition] Hi, my name is Betty Cantley, and I am from Ohio.
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I live in Lorain County, but I do a lot of things, all levels. I am part of the Ohio Lead Free Kids Coalition, where we advocate
62:15
to end childhood lead poisoning where there's a lot going on.
62:19
Why did I get involved in this? My son was lead poisoned in 1994.
62:25
Fire we had in the house.
62:27
It's called Jason's story.
62:30
Lead has been known for many, many years. This should have never happened. This should have been regulated long before, not a while before now. David Jacobs said it the best,
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lt all comes around money. Um, what they're doing in Lorain County right now is they're replacing the water, the water pipelines, which is a good thing. We need to eliminate lead poisoning, not just in the high aspect of employ, highest communities with
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lead poisoned children, but everywhere. Most of the houses in Lorain County are also were built before 1950 lead poisoning is not just a.
63:18
It's not a child, it affects the whole family.
63:23
Lead also, lead is lifelong like you like you said, it starts from the blood goes to the bones. And eventually, it can go into the organs.
63:36
I think the EPA is has come a long way since 1994.
63:41
I think we have a long way to go to eliminate this issue because people don't take it seriously. You still got stuff out there that have led I. They say dirt doesn't hurt.
63:55
I gotta tell you it does hurt you know we all heard that saying growing up, I used to like to play in the dirt myself, but dirt does hurt. Why would you put a price on your kid's head
64:07
or any child, or any child's head this is the numbers are so high in Ohio. 73.
64:15
You like I said, a lot of what I was gonna say.
64:17
Thank you.
64:21
But you shouldn't have a child. You shouldn't put a price on a child's head.
64:27
When it comes down to their learning to anything because of the lead poisoning, it affects them lifelong.
64:34
And that's really all I have to say I thank you for having me on.
65:11
[Kelly Applegate, Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe] Hello, I'm Kelly Applegate, I'm the Commissioner of Natural Resources for the Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe. Where we are a Indian nation
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situated in central Minnesota on the southwest shores of Lake Mille Lacs.
65:28
A portion of our reservation within our county that we reside in.
65:34
We are spread across several different counties throughout Minnesota, and two of our nine statutory communities with the other seven communities located across Aiken and paint counties of Minnesota, our tribal citizens reside within 30 miles of these
65:56
nine communities, and are eligible to receive services from that are, that our tribe provides for them.
66:06
We also have services and communities, down in the Twin Cities neighborhoods. And this is where a lot of exposure to lead could possibly happen.
66:20
As long, and also with some of our homes that were built in the, in or painted with possible lead contaminated paint from pre 70s condition.
66:35
In 2021, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention lowered the blood lead reference value from five micrograms of lead per deciliter to 3.5 micrograms per deciliter.
66:49
However, there is no safe blood level for children, even 3.5 million micrograms per deciliter of blood level is too high.
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The band recommends blood lead, blood
67:05
nationally, must be reduced to less than one microgram per deciliter to trigger action from all federal partners.
67:15
Because lead is hazardous the band in its rental housing offerings that we have in our community, do not contain lead, be it from legacy lead paints, or from plumbing, other than trace amounts found in solder of pipes.
67:32
Even housing that the band built for private ownership was built to be lead free.
67:40
The band, we cannot assure the same lead safe guarantee for our tribal citizens who own their own home in a house that the band did not provide the band does offer low interest loans for our citizens that wish to make improvements for their homes include,
67:58
which includes ensuring their home to be led free assistance from our federal partners can make even low interest loans and no interest loans for our tribal citizens to address lead legacy contamination and infrastructure would be helpful.
68:19
Additionally across all of our communities, we still have...
69:13
[Katheryn Redding, Private Citizen] My name is Katheryn Redding.
69:15
I am located in South Bend, Indiana.
69:20
And that is St. Joseph County.
69:25
And I hope that everyone can hear me
69:29
just fine.
69:31
My concerns are. That 80% of the housing stock here in St. Joseph County built between 1979
69:41
in fact, contain lead contaminants.
69:46
We, I am a community health worker.
69:48
And so, I have done lead outreach here in South Bend.
69:57
And what we what I've come to find is, there is nine
70:04
census tracts here in South Bend that have elevated lead levels, and the most impoverished would be census tract 19, which is the census tract and which I were doing outreach in, it had a test rate of 7.9% and elevated lead levels at 44.4%, with poverty rate of 48%, in 2005,
70:41
to 2015 lead screening data including 18,526 unique
70:54
cases of children that was screened came back with late screening rates ranged from 4.7 to 16.7% and more than 75% of the children here in South Bend had elevated blood levels higher than five decibels.
71:24
micrograms, and deciliters.
71:31
In 2018, the City of South Bend receives federal grant subsidies.
71:39
One was one at 33.4 million, in federal money, and the pot swelled to $7 million.
71:51
In 2022, September, those federal subsidies are set to expire and have yet to reach any of the community. Um,
72:06
what I've come to find that there's an infrastructure problem here in South Bend, though is seems like people are doing a lot of busy, busy work.
72:17
No one is.
72:20
There's no liaison, there's no checks and balances.
72:58
[Nicole Hill, Peoples Water Board Coalition] Good evening. Thank you for this opportunity to speak I appreciate the EPA holding this space for this purpose. I'm an activist and a resident of the city of Detroit, Michigan.
73:10
I work very closely with a number of other organizations that relate to the issues around clean accessible, affordable access to water.
73:21
A speaking about my sister and brother cities of Benton Harbor and Flint, as well as what's going on in Highland Park and Detroit and other community surrounding us lead is an issue that cannot any longer be allowed to fester and wait on services coming
73:46
to the residents that are suffering on a daily basis with the issues of lead contamination.
73:53
Every story I've heard tonight is a story of Flint, a story of Benton Harbor, a story of Detroit. They're all having one thing in common, somewhere along the line.
74:05
They are the same story. either it's prior to a lead poisoning during a lead contamination, or the after effects of a lead contamination. And yet these pipes still in the ground and all of these neighborhoods.
74:19
There is no other way to resolve this. But to supply.
74:25
All of these communities, with the complete removal of lead service lines, and what I've noticed in Benton Harbor Flint is not just in the streets and the utility providers underground pipes but up to these people's houses, and in many, if not most cases
74:45
the fixtures and piping inside the house asked to be replaced. And these are the communities that are marginalized and disadvantaged where people are not able to afford it, the monies that are given through ego should not come with any type of stipulation,
75:02
such is putting any more financial strain on the backs of these communities that they are sworn in, with a duty to protect.
75:13
There is no way that people in all these cities that I mentioned, the people that are affected should not also be some of the people that are being trained to do this work and learn how to utilize and Repair and Replace these lists emphasize, and do services
75:32
such as checking houses to make sure that there's no layer pipes or contamination in the fastest all these communities to be supplied with high tech filters that are known to filter out layout lip, articles, and there has to be some type of compensation
75:47
to help these communities.
75:50
The illnesses from lead don't just stop it children, and they don't just stop when you stop being contaminated Suddenly, there needs to be something in place to help these communities not only protect them, but rebuild them as well.
76:03
Thank you.
76:15
[Edward Pinkney, Black Autonomy Network Community Organization] All right, Edward Pinkney the President of the Black Autonomy Network community organization to President of Benton Harbor Water Council, and for over three years, the City of Benton Harbor
76:33
has suffered from lead.
76:35
And nobody said a moment word. Nobody said anything about it for over three years for three years the community suffered their grieving right now, people don't even know the effect of this lead.
76:47
One of the things that I would like to see the EPA do and be more pro active is crucial that you step in and before the stage. You know, if a city got lead pipes, most likely you got lead in the war.
77:02
And to me that is very, very important. We have to make sure there's there's no community has lived in the water, our children should not be drinking water with lead in it, and we talk about reducing the lead.
77:17
That's the wrong word to use reduce, we should be talking about eliminating the lead and which can be done. You know, and we must make sure that we're doing all the things that we need to do.
77:29
We must hold governmental stakeholders, all of them accountable for their words, their action, and their inaction.
77:37
We must stand up and make sure that they're doing what they supposed to do, because nobody. No child should have to drink contaminated water. Nobody. And it's not fair.
77:50
And my thing is that some of the things that that the EPA can do is start with the elimination, and reducing the action level, they say they're going to reduce it down to 12, it should be at zero at the most three or four.
78:09
Anything above three or four is dangerous, especially for our children, and we must understand the importance of this day. We cannot let another Benton Harbor Flint Michigan happen.
78:21
And I wish you'd be able to hit that all before you start. And just like Nicole said the pipes on the inside of the house, need to be removed the people doesn't have the resources to do that.
78:35
And right now they're talking about changing the pipes in the from the streets and to the house, but we need to change the pipe from the from the from the street and go, in fact how we need to do that right away, and I go should be, which is more important
78:50
anything else is to eliminate lead, and also bacteria.
78:56
See the bacteria and the one is just as bad as to lay that kills you. just like lead do.
79:03
Also, number one, education, we must educate, educate, educate the community about the land in the water.
79:12
Plus, the bacteria in the waterr, we must use that as a stepping stone to make sure that we do what needs to be done. And thank you so much for this opportunity.
79:44
[Melissa Mays, Water You Fighting For?] Okay. My name is Melissa Mays, I'm an impacted Flint resident on the phone from Water You Fighting For and Operations Manager point right thing. I'm specifically looking at goal one although I agree with everything everybody said especially brothers
79:56
and sisters from Benton Harbor and Detroit.
79:59
But goal one objective be to reduce exposure from have lunch, and drinking water.
80:05
We in Flint know firsthand that low income and majority black and brown communities are often overlooked in many public health and safety plan. And unfortunately, we end up being guinea pigs and test subjects for experimentation with increasing profit
80:18
and lowering costs, the powers that be at our expense.
80:22
I found this out the hard way over the past ongoing nearly eight years of the Flint water crisis, and it seems that not every agency or governmental office seems to be on the same page for the whole of government approach to find to remove all lead
80:36
hazards and water especially, I'm going to give two examples. Example number one is the lettuce breath in water meters. Currently the City of Flint is using funding from the EPA to replace water meters and all home.
80:49
One question that we ask is if these water meters had leaded brass fittings, like the old meters used to. We were told, at first I didn't have an answer we didn't know and then come to find out that they do include the lead brass fittings, but we should
81:02
be fine, which we've heard before.
81:04
Many residents have resisted and allowing a stranger into their home during the COVID-19 pandemic.
81:10
Nonetheless, but also whose job is to add more lead into our home. Currently, the city is sending out water shut off notices to shut people off who refuse to have a lead of breath, water meters installed in their home.
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Example number to have another loophole that pitting Flint right now that we hope will not spread beyond blessed.
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Since August of 2021 the City of Flint, State of Michigan, Eagle and Genesee County have been changing our water source again, this is what started the Flint water crisis in 2014 and now they have found yet another loophole in a Safe Drinking Water Act and
81:40
LCR by switching our water by doing a blending process, and using an example to say, you know, it's an emergency, we have to fix a valve, which we cannot get any data on, and they're saying this valve is going to continue to fluctuate the percentages of
81:57
what's going on with the blending between these two water sources with no water testing done properly, no proper notification things that are required within the LCR, but they're able to get through this loophole because they are blending.
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What we have found is once again we have high levels of lead spiking in the hundreds and thousands of parts per billion and nothing is being done. We don't even know which water utility we would report to, because we have issues and nobody's telling us
82:21
what we can do that, sit and wait, and we heard that before and 2014 15. I just want to put it on record that these are two major loopholes that are seeming to restart the Flint water crisis here, and we can't seem to get any inconsistent with compliance
82:34
or regulations as they don't seem to exist for leaded breath water filled up water meters, as the owned and state supported lending of a changing of water source through this blending process once already been through enough and it seems that the assumption
82:49
is that for black and brown cities are a great place to experiment around the regulations, and right now it's causing too much harm to our city we've already been through enough.
82:57
Thank you.
83:35
[Gracie Wooten, Souladarity] Okay. Um, my name is Gracie Wooten, and I live in Highland Park Michigan.
83:41
We had a action alert lead sequence in Highland Park in 2019. So, we're still drinking filtered water Highland Park has the highest percentage of children with elevated blood, blood levels in the state of Michigan at 14%, eliminating let exposure and
84:05
be looked at in isolation from community center redevelopment and energy justice communities drafting a lead strategy to strengthen public health and address legacy lead contamination and economically distressed communities, requires a ship and EPA is
84:29
approach.
84:31
We've all seen how residents are left out of the local jobs necessary and prepare repairing infrastructure, both homes, and in the streets and flip.
84:45
and in Benton Harbor Michigan.
84:48
Residents remain unemployed and infrastructure work moves at a snail's pace and is not done by people living in the community.
85:00
You cannot isolate economic development from public health.
85:05
Local governments have a skeleton staff, technical and grant assistance is not enough money cities pay for infrastructure repair is not being circulated back into the community.
85:22
Jobs required to get let out our career opportunities for jobs and clean energy jobs of the future.
85:32
The focus is build back better not build back the same.
85:39
The EPA should partner with the Department of Energy, and the Department of Education to support the building of educational centers, focus on clean energy jobs and economic justice communities, eliminating let exposure cannot be looked at in isolation
86:03
from community center redevelopment.
86:07
Thank you.
86:33
[Darrick Wade, Cleveland Lead Advocates for Safe Housing]  My name is Reverend Darrick Wade senior. I'm a member of Clash, Cleveland lead advocates for safe housing.
86:48
I became an activist issue for the latest issue after my son Demetrius Wade was diagnosed with lead poisoning, in 1992, at the age of nine years old.
87:04
And although I wasn't aware of the complications or the effects Demetrius exhibited signs as early as
87:16
18 months old as a toddler, of having lead poisoning while we lived in public housing in Cleveland, Ohio.
87:26
As a result of these illnesses. Lead ravaged his body.
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He was a juvenile diabetic at 12 at 13 years old.
87:37
He had complications of his kidney I've seen it was his liver at 18 and 19, he had an enlarged heart.
87:47
So lead act as a silent killer. My son's succumb to his illnesses, at the age of 24 years old. September 15 2007, that, that, traumatic experience caused me to become an activist, to get the issue out of lead poisoning the fact that it is a, a silent
88:18
killer. And so, thank you for having me here.
88:24
We're asking, Clash is asking, the EPA to provide guidance and resources so I elected leaders who are trying to implement changes in order that we can make this United States and around the country.
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A environmental justice, which is a reality in our communities to help our children because there is a segment of children that has not been tested.
89:02
When Demetrius was tested he met that threshold.
89:07
But the threshold in age to cut off for lead testing was 10 years old. There is a large amount of children who are now in their 30s who were never tested.
89:22
I believe the EPA and local communities and officials should look at a monitoring program to follow up on all the children who are tested with lead poisoning.
90:01
[Sabrina Good, EGLE  -  WRD] Hi everyone, My name is Sabrina Good. I'm commenting today as a citizen of the state of Michigan. And I like to encourage the EPA to collaborate with cities which have demolition programs, especially you know cities like the city of Detroit where the mayor
90:15
has instilled a demolition program to fight blight in the city.
90:20
Those demolitions have been linked to increase but bubbles and children surrounding those houses that are demolished.
90:29
I'd like to ensure the future demolitions are handled in a way that eliminates the suspension and re suspension of lead dust and soil to protect communities demolitions continue to occur which they will have EPA must work with local and state governments
90:47
to ensure that travel and hotel vouchers are given to members of the community and the surrounding areas of those demolitions to ensure that they're not exposed to suspended lead in the air.
90:58
During those demolitions ensure that their homes are cleaned.
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After those demolitions and I'm sure that all soils are not contaminated by future demolitions.
91:09
I'd also like to reiterate what other speakers have said regarding lead fixtures inside the homes, I believe that the EPA must ensure that these fixtures are removed and replaced with no cost to the residents of those homes.
91:22
And that's about all that I have for today.
91:55
[Sylvia Orduno, Michigan Welfare Rights Organization] Thank you very much.
91:58
So, again, appreciate that you're having this conversation nationally, and especially here in Region 5 where I think that we need to see an additional focus from EPA headquarters around this.
92:08
And so I want to speak especially to Mr. Carlton Waterhouse and Ms. Debra Shore around this, because I think that what we need is a deeper appreciation for what you've been hearing tonight from residents across this region, about the multiplicity of
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factors that are harming communities around lead in the various ways that have been described, but also what feels like a very much disproportionate impact in this region, when we're looking at what's going on across the nation.
92:35
And we've also been states here that have been is part of the rust belt and part of the industrial development of this nation, and we've got old communities with old houses with workers that sacrifice that came from the south work here, and a lot of long
92:47
long standing environmental justice issues that were really needing this region to appreciate more deeply the EPA to realize the additional needs that exist, and really figure out how when we're talking about environmental justice communities, we're also
93:00
talking about environmental justice region. And so really wanting to see more directly the resources that come to this, this region to address the lead service needs.
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But I think also this is also feeling a bit premature to have this public hearing right now, when we still haven't received from the EPA, the responses to the lead and copper rule revisions that many of us participated in in 12 cities across the nation.
93:25
We were fortunate to have four cities in Michigan, but we did some combining to be part of kind of like that 10 city roundtable, but there was much that we shared by way of there that you're hearing tonight that still hasn't been responded to to really
93:36
even say if the approaches that are in this this current strategy around lead reduction disclosure and disparities can really even be done if we don't know what you're going to do, by way of those revisions.
93:46
Right. And so, there's lots of things that we also want to hear from that we recorded also those roundtables that have to do with the way in which lead service line replacement work is going to be done through the funding from the SRS right so we've heard
94:02
again that there's going to be this additional $15 billion provided to do lip service science and we appreciate the demonstration for doing this. But again, we have to have that funding in grants and principal forgiveness in our environmental justice
94:16
communities are low income communities we don't want to hear anything about that you've got to have matching grants at the local level or that you've got to leverage other funding, it has to be straight out paid for our communities cannot afford the additional
94:27
debt burdens that we've been taking on we've been making the case for years, that we can't afford our water utility bills, the way they are right now rates are going up in order to pay for the infrastructure.
94:36
And if we don't deal with this head on and getting these lead service lines, taken out with the federal funds, we're not going to be any better off, especially since we know the funds are limited.
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We're hoping they'll be able to spread out across communities but it's not possible, and then just lastly on that soil, I highly suggest that we look at what the City of Boston is done in Region 1 to get lead out of soil it's an amazing program and
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it's something that we should be replicating in cities across this region. Thank you.
95:19
[Linda Digby, Private Citizen] Okay, I live in Portage, Kalamazoo which is Kalamazoo County in Southwest Michigan, I'm the water ambassador, which
95:35
is a volunteer role, the state of Michigan.
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And I worked as a volunteer for about two years now, and it's a wonderful thing. I'm a former EPA I worked with scientists out in Region 5 at our environmental research lab so, and I used to do national workshops on sewage control
96:00
and stuff like that technology. So the couple things I want to bring attention to is EPA needs to start making their information public. I don't know if you're doing that right now.
96:12
But there needs to be a database that's acceptable to library, and that churches can new, and it needs to have the address of the building, or the resonant.
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If it was tested. If the lead levels of anybody living in that the sources of the lead.
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And if any action was done. So, I'm talking specifically about landlords. Kalamazoo has really bad old housing, they charged between $1400 and $2400 for these old homes that have all these issues and need to be told I lived in apartments last couple years.
96:58
years. I was never told when they were going to flush, or if the water tasted with heavy metal I complained about it, and they don't have to tell the residents.
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There should be laws on the books that says you have to tell, landlords have to provide information about flushing their stuff in the apartment building, and whatever lead level.
97:25
There are in terms and the piping was old and I live in newer places too I can imagine all these college students. We have three colleges, and they pay the exorbitant runs, where their levels are school.
97:43
I really think that the schools are a big issue. Our schools in Kalamazoo, and some of the ones in Portage are not new, their old early 1900s some of the day back that far.
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And they need to be looked at and seriously what that, and I can't get the city of Kalamazoo, to the water people over there to call me back. So I can talk to them.
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And that's pretty sad.
98:10
So I guess what I'm saying is one suggestion is to oh, and the other thing is, there needs to be a simple fact sheet that can go out in
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any member of the community. The city with what is glad, where it is found, where you can get it tested, just a one page simple fact sheet written for people of different income levels that they can access, and they can put these on the water bill
98:46
water bill.
99:29
[Charlie Schlinger, Private Citizen] I'm a resident of Northern Michigan in Traverse City, Michigan Northwestern Michigan College Flight School for nearly a half century has run touch and go pilot training over lower income neighborhoods, a joining and near the cherry capital airport.
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The flight school piston engine aircraft use aviation fuel.
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The college and aviation program administrators have felt entitled to do this because they say the FAA allows the use of loaded fuels.
100:01
EPA has historically abdicated its responsibility concerning these ongoing low levels of small particle lead contamination over and near what are typically low income areas.
100:16
People means generally don't live in nearby neighborhoods near airports, but touch and go circuits involve many repetitions of relatively low elevation flight patterns with as many takeoff and landing operations as can be squeezed into a given time period.
100:32
These, these patterns are typically flown on low wind fair weather days, and they repeatedly cover the same ground track, up to several hundred times a day, and up to 5,000, 10,000 or even more times per year.
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I estimate the atmospheric lead dispersal from the college flight school to be approximately 300 pounds a year or 15,000 pounds over the past half century.
100:59
A recent 2017 study by Zahran et. al.
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The effects of leaded aviation gasoline on blood, blood levels and children documented the relationship between piston engine aircraft activity and children's blood lead levels for numerous Michigan airports.
101:19
The children's blood levels track piston engine aircraft activity over the 10 year study period, the correlations between these two datasets shocks the conscience, as the lead emissions are well known to flight school administrators airport management,
101:35
FAA and EPA.
101:38
Cherry Capital Airport is by no means the only airport that has a flight school client dispersing small particle lead over a joining and nearby neighborhoods schools and vulnerable children.
101:52
I asked that the EPA craft and implement rules with teeth to restrain the management and owners of flight schools, which each and all knowingly and willfully expose children, and other near airport residents to small particle lead.
102:09
There is no safe lead level for children, as you are all aware regulatory capture of the FAA and EPA by the aviation community has gone on for far too long.
102:23
Thank you.
102:41
[Nathan Park, Earthjustice] Thank you and good evening my name is Nathan Park I'm a Legislative Assistant at Earth Justice, a nonprofit environmental law firm, and I appreciate the opportunity to speak today on ups drop lead strategy.
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I'm humbled to hear from others on tonight's session, many of whom have been pushing forward local and state level fights against lead. And I joined the many others on this call, calling EPA to not just reduce, but to eliminate lead exposure completely
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from all communities in this country, or justice appreciates the draft strategy necessarily aiming center environmental justice. However, the draft must be strengthened in order to make this a reality as it lacks critical specifics regarding it's identified
103:19
policy changes, including aggressive time frames for action clarification on how the draft strategy intersects with the Biden Harris lead pipe and paint action plan which was released in December of last year, and how EPA will incentivize states to join
103:34
up as efforts to ensure funding gets to communities that need it most.
103:38
For example in connection with lead based paint hazards, EPA states and the plan, only that it will reconsider the desolate hazard standards, and does let parents levels, it may revisit its lead and renovation protocol, and it will revisit and as appropriate
103:53
revise the definition of lead based paint. This is all despite the fact that last spring after more than a decade of legal challenges, the Ninth Circuit ordered EPA to promulgate health based dust led hazard standards in conjunction with reconsidered
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desolate at clearance levels, and to update soil let hazard standards, which have not been updated since their adoption in 2001, the evolving science tells us that most of the harms of lead poisoning occur at the lowest levels of exposure.
104:21
Current led hazard standards, which are essential for protecting children from lead exposure in and around homes have failed to keep up with that science, EPA is committing only to considering changes to existing standards for lead based paint hazards
104:35
and ongoing lead emissions. The strategy also takes a non committal approach to the lead and copper rule, simply saying that EPA is reviewing the rule, and the recent revisions, and the lead max standards, stating only the EPA will consider whether to
104:48
to retain or revise the current next for lead the agency must can commit to concrete immediate timelines for a number of vital lead really will make things and commit to revising it standards to align them with the current science, instead of spending
105:02
years considering what to do, have children are being poisoned.
105:05
Earth Justice along with other community partners and organizations will be submitting written comments on EPA as droplet strategy that further detail the national rules standards policies and guidance that EPA must adopt in order to meet its goal of
105:18
reducing lead exposures and eliminating racial and socio economic disparities and blood lead levels. Thank you for your time.
105:39
[Lori Burns, Anthropocene Alliance] Okay. All right. Thank you very much. Thanks for the opportunity to provide input on this, I'm a third generation homeowner of Chicago Southside Chatham Chesterfield community, and my comments focus on lead explosion or drinking water or local government
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is totally fail to act with transparency and urgency to mitigate the decades of damage to our health, social stability and economic advantage in our African American communities.
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I'm here because of excellent journalism legal and community activism of organizations like blacks and green and elevate energy, which have worked to elevate this critical issue for residents like me are most vulnerable residents shoulder the burden of
106:21
Chicago's massive lead service line problem, and our entrenched segregation problem, our water is increasingly unaffordable due to rapid rate hikes, fines and fees.
106:31
The city stopped installing money saving water meters, because of the lead issues that it caused. This has resulted in majority black zip codes having fewer money saving meters, yet still have unsafe water and 10 times the water debt of white neighborhoods.
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We have the triple insult of paying up to $500 more per year for unsafe water, plus the measurable cost to our health. So we need action now, not more endless studies, we need to distribute filters automatically to reduce immediate harm.
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Replace the less service lines in private and public buildings at no cost to residents. We need to cancel the water debt, and implement income based billing provide practical support to those who've been harmed by this.
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It's encouraging that one of EPA stated goals is to address legacy lead contamination for communities with the greatest exposures and to promote environmental justice.
107:29
Well, addressing and promoting what specifically do those things need this let's strategy can be improved by setting clear strict guidelines and enforcing them with penalties.
107:40
By making lead contamination and mitigation maps publicly available and easily accessible by mandating lead free live free lead line replacements and immediate distribution of free water filter systems by requiring the whole of government solution that's
107:56
been noted to disclose the economic impact and provide redress for the harms caused, and by leading a robust, modern, long term public information campaign to educate the public, and finally by publishing specifics metrics timelines funding and oversight.
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Again regular people need action now with the millions of infrastructure dollars coming soon. Those free filters lead lines are placed, why did that cancelled, affordable safe water and real help for those who aren't harmed.
108:27
These comments will also be submitted in writing and thank you very much.
109:11
[Nayyirah Shariff, Flint Rising] I'm Naira Sharif, and a Director of Flint Rising which is based in Flint, Michigan.
109:17
And I just want to comment, a couple of things around like the lead paint and the water like I totally agree with Sabrina good comments around demolition like I live in a community where over 80% of housing stock was built before 1978.
109:32
Like many economically distressed and structurally divested communities that face population loss Flint is tearing down homes, we really need to look at the life cycle of demolition.
109:43
And the wastewater that contains lead paint. How is this being disposed of safely? Well in Michigan, a lot of this demolition wastewater is going to an incinerator just outside of Flint which is Genesee power station.
109:58
that is owned by the sister company of Consumers Energy. Consumers Energy is the largest energy provider in Michigan, less than a mile away from public housing complex section eight housing.
110:10
And this is burning, like an environmental justice community. How is the surrounding community being impacted by the demolition? And we have to make sure that the fugitive does caused by paint is not harming the surrounding communities, also like the infill
110:29
from the demolition, the soil from the infill, it should not contain sources of lead.
110:36
Also by placing lead and water in this document people can infer an erroneous assumption that lead exposure from water is static is not it is very dynamic. And like we have to treat it as such, and have like our own responses like addressing that the money is not
110:56
enough to address this problem, like I'm disappointed that Approach 2 which is reducing light exposure nationally through protective standards, does not call for really implementing lead free plumbing and in fixtures everywhere over 10 years ago, Congress
111:13
passed a Reduction of Lead and Drinking Water Act, which costs for up 2.25% lead and brass fixtures, to be classified as lead free like these lead free brass faucets can still least let into our drinking water especially with the replacement.
111:30
We really need greater education in replacing fixtures so people aren't putting themselves in harm's way. We also need to revisit the lead and copper role, and we need to set standards to detect level and not at these artificial numbers that have no basis
111:44
no basis in public health. We need health based standards finally like we do need grants.
111:50
Not loans and we need to prioritize low income minority communities of color, and environmental justice communities with grants and principal forgiveness, and we don't need to have partial let let service line replacement.
112:07
And we really need to connect this with, with the needs of economic development and ensuring that there is jobs and trainings for local residents. Thank you.
112:27
[Gary Keller, Private Citizen] Alright, thanks for this I'm going to tie in a little with Charlie's talk about flight schools.
112:38
On this draft on page 15 they talk about reducing lead from piston engine aircraft.
112:45
Currently there are 20,000 aviation airports in the U.S., all of these airports cater to planes that still use let it aviation fuel.
112:54
It is estimated that 16 million people, including about 3 million children that live within a kilometer of those airports. Many are most of these children come from poor economic backgrounds, very low levels of lead and children's blood have been linked
113:11
to adverse effects on intellect concentration and academic achievement. That study, once again by Dr. Sammy Sarran has proven not only that children who live near these airports have elevated blood levels.
113:26
Some of them higher than those found in the Flint water crisis, but also that the 2008 EPA national ambient air quality standard for lead of 0.15 micrograms per cubic meter is completely out of whack.
113:42
Each year general aviation aircraft are responsible for 1 million pounds of lead emissions across United States.
113:50
On an average general aviation aircraft makeup 70% of all new lead emissions in the U.S., in Michigan, that percent goes up to 81 in Wisconsin, it goes up to 80% of all new lady missions, every year.
114:07
The six states that make up region five put up close to 121,000 pounds, or 60, tons of lead through the exhaust of general aviation planes every year.
114:19
All for the breathing pleasure of our children.
114:23
When the EPA considers working with the FAA on this issue, please consider the words of Congressman Adam Smith.
114:31
The Federal Aviation Administration, the lead federal entity for these issues is simply not equipped to meaningfully address the environmental justice, and health equity challenges of noise and emissions.
114:45
If we are to treat this problem as an environmental justice and equity issue, then the agencies like the EPA, who lead our work on environmental health and our core quality need to be more engaged, the 2021 National Academy of Science study on AV gas
115:03
is woefully short of giving real recommendations for fixing the problems. We do not need any more testing. The biggest threat to children born, and unborn is from the air that they're breathing, we know what the problem is, we need to fix it, anyone in
115:20
the audience out there tonight that lives anywhere near in an airport, you are breathing and lead from these planes every single day. Thank you.
117:19
[David Jacobs, National Center for Healthy Housing/UIC] Well,
117:25
when I was, didn't get to comment on.
117:29
At the end of the day was that that we've. If you think historically that we've had three main areas modern in the modern era.
117:39
We had a medical model, which basically tested kids between 1950 and 1990 to basically make sure that we found them and if they if they were in danger of dying or severe injury that we would act but that proves to be inefficient and so what we had in
118:02
the second phase between nine, you know, 1990 and about 2015 was the emergence of a primary prevention model that focused on housing primarily, although as many have noted on this there are other sources that are also important.
118:21
But what we're lacking is the ability to take it to scale so we have this small program of highly specialized lead remediation contractors who go about fixing homes, usually in response to a poison kid but that's not enough.
118:40
And so we need to take it the scale. And that's my main message I guess is that, you know, you get what you pay for in this world if we don't have the money that we need me, we don't have the investment that we need to solve the problem we're going to
118:51
And we don't have the investment that we need to solve the problem we're going to continue to pay for this generation after generation and that's just wrong.
119:01
We know better we know how to fix this problem. So, what we need to do now is to take it to scale and so that's sort of the bad news. The good news is that now we have record appropriations in Congress, and finally the paint companies who, and the paint
119:18
the pipe companies who put lead in these homes in the first place, have finally been made to pay.
119:24
And in a few places like California and elsewhere. So, you know, it's important that government, which after all is all of us as citizens act, to make sure that the right policies are put in place, but we need to make sure that the money is there.
119:42
And without that you get what you pay for. As I said, so we'll continue to pay for this year after year if we don't solve the problem once and for all.
119:52
And so I there's light at the end of this tunnel. That's my hopeful message, we know how to fix this the technology's there, and EPA should basically make sure that it collaborates with other agencies like and CDC and HHS and Department of Agriculture
120:11
and Rural Housing, Federal Aviation Administration, and others to make sure that we can solve this problem once and for all by taking care of all the sources and all the pathways of exposure that matter.
120:26
I think, you know, a certain sense, just to close.
120:32
It's infuriating that we're still talking about this, we know how to fix this is a solvable problem. Let's put this behind this that's make this people talk about legacy.
120:42
Let's make this a legacy in the past and I will I guess in the future, so that our children don't suffer for generations to come. 
121:16
[Kelly Applegate, Mille Lacs Band of Ojibwe] All right, I just wanted to build off of the comments where I left off, I just wanted to add a few more points.
121:24
You know, coming from the perspective of a Tribal nation.
121:29
We, and we specifically as the Mille Lacs Band, having our community spread across different areas of the state. And if they're within our tribal programs we've done a lot to watch lead, watch lead issues in our communities.
121:52
But some of them fall, without out of the range of our scope of being able to provide services for them. So we encourage the the federal government to really do a comprehensive look and ask the tribes if they need assistance with monitoring for lead in
122:13
their various communities.
122:15
I think that would be very beneficial.
122:18
And also, there's many facilities emitting low levels of lead across Minnesota, that are permitted. And in order to protect our citizens from these air emission resources.
122:37
There's a right now in Minnesota there's a total potential to emit threshold of half a ton per year for lead and the band encourages the US EPA to reduce the current 10 1010 per year lead area missions limit to match Minnesota is more stringent era missions
123:01
limit for lead.
123:04
So with those comments.
123:07
That's all I have for now and I appreciate the opportunity for this listening session. Thank you.
123:33
[Katheryn Redding, Private Citizen] Thank you. I appreciate you getting back to me as I was trying to close I was trying to bring to the forefront so that the problem here in St.
123:46
Joseph County is that there isn't any checks and balances.
123:52
We have the Health Department we have CDC, we have WIC offices, we have the Section 8 office and
124:01
at no point, are they, aligning themselves with each other to mitigate the dangers of lead here in South Bend. I am also
124:15
a person that's been affected by lead poisoning.
124:20
As a child, and do so my exposure levels.
124:28
I read poisoned.
124:31
When I became pregnant with my first and only child.
124:36
And he now suffers from deafness and blindness and seizures.
124:43
So, this is, this is why I took up this fight. Unfortunately there are children here in South Bend that have been affected. And as I said before federal grants are set to expire here in 2012 were in 2022 here in September, federal grants are set to run
125:10
out.
125:12
We have not been effective with using this money this money has just set inside of these accounts.
125:47
here in our community so systematically is where is where where opposition, really resides with mitigating the lead and children are suffering because of it.
126:08
And I think that as a community health worker and community activists, environmental in justices here in South Bend are just being swept up under the table when no one's doing anything about it I spoke the council members and we can have policies put
126:30
in place, but if they're not being enforced by the EPA. Unfortunately,
126:37
we don't stand a chance. So, yeah. Thank you.
127:02
[Linda Digby, Private Citizen] Okay, I'm just a quick.
127:05
I really believe in databases, and it's got to be made available to the public.
127:10
I believe in public participation when I worked for EPA we were really big back then, on public participation. And how do you do that you make it available free at libraries, churches, cities.
127:25
And we got to call landlords to a county, because they deal with the water, they don't inform the tenants who rent from them it's really bad in Kalamazoo.
127:39
We got to take down old housing and rebuild new ones and it costs money I know, but you are the foundation so if you don't take care of it when they're little kids, you're going to pay for more of that in the long run through mental health and health
127:55
issues.
127:56
You have to have more listening sessions that's part of public participation. This is great. You got to support EPA budget, they haven't had a big budget for a long time.
128:06
And it's been cut over the years really bad. So write your congressman and your legislators both federal and state, and even your local people and say, let's beef up EPA budget and kudos for what you're doing tonight I think this is great, I'm going to
128:25
encourage anybody in the State of Michigan to enjoy to join the water ambassadors group. And that's your ankle. And we touched a lot of bases last couple years.
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We got to do more with schools. They're less than anybody's agenda.
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And I also want to put out I'm a professional landscaper I work in soils all the time and I stopped, anything that anybody use from chemicals and all around old homes and buildings I stopped doing, and dollar stores are notorious for cheap toys that are
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imported from China, they have tons of lead and its best has that been revealed through dozens of newspaper articles. So, I would like to see EPA and our government, federal government, start cracking down on toys from dollar stores and a lot of our low
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income children are exposed to that. And I want to thank you tonight for all your, your help. Okay. Take care. Bye.
138:25
[Frederick Kirschner, Quapaw Tribal Representative] Thank you. Can you hear me. Yes, perfect. I did not realize this National Forum was occurring until this morning. And I'm glad that I picked it up in my news feed.
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I've been employed in superfans since its inception in 1981. That's more than 41 years. I represent 10 tribal governments on super fun cleanups throughout the US and all regions including region five.
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I have been reviewing human health risk assessments for more than 30 years. My specialty is large mining districts, including the quarter lane basin and the Tar Creek Superfund sites, both the two largest lead mining districts in the United States.
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The bad news is that anyone who has been involved in EPA processes for quite some time will realize that EPA is not necessarily certainly your friend up errs the patsies of industry, as well as state governments, trying to save a dime at the expense of
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the citizenry.
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The good news is we have been successful and using the super fun process to positively affect cleanups on tribal lands.
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After describing to my 85 year old Auntie, what I had been doing the last 30 years via one hour PowerPoint. She correctly concluded. So in summary, those that live close to the land like tribes must have clean lands.
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And that's the that's the bottom line. And so the bottom line is when tribes are involved.
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We've been able to set our own blood lead level to say one micrograms per deciliter via tribal legislation.
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And that coupled with writing tribal specific human health risks scenarios, has enabled us to set remediation goals to pre contamination conditions. In other words, a true cleanup is instead of leaving a residual like that typically happens on these sites
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and I've you know share the frustration I here with most of the folks.
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Today, on that issue, the general population or or non tribal citizens can also lobby their elected officials and their public health districts to adopt a similar approach, you guys can set your own blood lead levels.
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If, if your politicians and the districts are willing to go along, but I have not seen this done and all of my 40 years and super fund. Anyway, I hope that helps you, there's a great group of advocates I heard today.
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And I'm hoping to see that.
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You know issues become address sometime in my lifetime I again I share the frustration that I've heard from many of the speakers. Thank you very much.
141:33
[Glen Terry, RCAP] Hi, my name is Glen Terry I worked for an organization, RCap, and I'm an operator, RCap is the rural Community Action Partnership. we work primarily with communities.
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And I'm based right here in Michigan, I am a water operator. Just a few comments that like to make for Mr. Pink, I believe it's Reverend Pinkney who was on just a little bit earlier.
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As far as Benton Harbor goes.
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Our organization does have a private grant that was just given to us and just so he would know we are planning on putting drinking stations, water fill stations in.
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In the Benton Harbor school system that funding I think the contract got signed, maybe last week so I'm not sure how many people know about that. I'm on the EPA side.
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Also, EPA just did appropriate some money. As for Michigan tribal.
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Another comment maybe I'd like to make is your I hear a lot of stuff about, you know, inner city communities and stuff like that. And I can appreciate that but I'm not so sure that people who aren't in the trenches, every day with us realize that it's
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a much, much larger problem and there's no community that's not affected.
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I work with many many small water systems.
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And I think you would be stunned at it, you know, they just they don't have the money either it's, it's almost unreal, how big the need is So, and people like us you know we work at it every day, I teach classes all the time.
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I work with ego here are our privacy agency.
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Every day, and I just like to, you know, give a shout out to them, nobody would realize how hard. These people work I hear a lot of people demonizing a bit and stuff like that but I don't think people realize how absolutely hard these people work and
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how much we network.
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A couple of comments.
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Just on, you know, on the for those that maybe speak to, you know, other people, you know, in the community and stuff like that, you know, when you're when they're replacing the meter.
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Look for the NL stamping on those brass fittings you know that that shows that there's no lead I mean there's a requirement here that you do not have lead fittings, another comment talked about partial replacements here in Michigan, you don't get a partial
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replacement.
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If you have a partial replacement.
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Get ahold of somebody and get it replaced right.
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I think they worked very hard in Michigan and we all do. So, anyway, thank you.
144:58
[Miki Barnes, Private Citizen] Yes, I'm Miki Barnes, and I'm, I'm really appreciative of the many people and groups that testified this evening, and the work they're doing on addressing lead in water in housing, and an air, and I have deep empathy for those losses sustained
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due to lead poisoning. And for that reason I am in full support of the total elimination of lead
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on this communities throughout this country throughout the world. Actually, I would.
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I'm also grateful to Charlie Schlinger and Gary Keller for their comments on aviation lead pollution, this is an area. I work on, and I really appreciate their testimony.
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I do want to comment on the, the strategy study I believe on page 10. It talked about the lead emissions in St. Louis.
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zip code in St. Louis 65401, I'm sorry St. Joseph, Missouri 65401, and they found children there had blood levels, 16 between 16 and 20% of the children, tested had elevated blood that doubles.
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I did a little research on that and I found that adjacent to that zip code was zip code 65403, and there is an airport located there rose Kranz Memorial Airport.
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And I'm just thinking that in some of these little scenarios, it's important to look at how are the airports in the area impacting blood levels along with the water and the lead and paint and housing.
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So I'm just going to encourage a little more research into the St. Joseph, Missouri situation.
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I'd also like to question the blood the double testing in consistencies, I noticed here I'm in Oregon and I'm not really in that region your region, but here they use questionnaires to test for lead, rather than actual blood level testing, so they don't
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have any real database. And I'm wondering about how we get some consistency across this nation on testing for glad. So we have accurate data on blood, blood bubbles.
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So, those I'm coming to the end of my time but those are just my comments for now. Thank you so much I appreciate the work you're doing on this.
148:09
[Stephanie Beebe, City of Toledo] So my name is Stephanie Beebe and I serve as a Lead Safe Coordinator for the City of Toledo in Ohio, I'm going to try to be brief and just assume that everyone here recognizes that lead
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poisoning is a genuine problem. And I'm also not going to go into all the efforts we've made here in Toledo to try to prevent lead poisoning. Except I want to say that you can read about them at Toledoleadsafe.com, and we have done much of this work
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using our own general funding to demonstrate our commitment to creating a lead safe community during my tenure as lead safe coordinator I have faced multiple challenges, just as a local government agent, trying to rectify the lead based paint problem
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that we have inherited here in Toledo, and lead based paint and the RRP rule will be the focus of my suggestions because that's what I work with. So, first, many localities, we do not have the capacity to inspect a bait and remediate lead paint hazards.
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We don't have enough trained and licensed workers. So no matter how much abatement funding is awarded from the federal level, we will not be able to utilize it, if we cannot increase our contractor pools, EPA draft strategy must include opportunities
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for increasing worker capacity. Now, so when additional remediation funds are available, local workers will be trained and ready to receive help are ready to receive work, help us create jobs and increase our pipelines for grant funded work to, I made
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multiple attempts to contact the EPA Region five.
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During my time here, I wanted to figure out how best we could partner to educate and enforce the RRP rule and provide local training opportunities, but I was never able to make headway.
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EPA must work with local partners more closely, or consider turning over and providing enough funding for the state to oversee the RP program.
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Number three, enforcement of our RRP violations it just simply does not occur here in Toledo, a reporting method for local violations needs to be created or if it already exists, educated through training stakeholders like me, so we can partner and help
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the EPA be successful. We need to know what violations occur. The investigation and enforcement results and have access to clear real time data on EPA efforts in our communities.
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And number four. Finally, the bulk of properties with lead paint issues they have a lot of other problems like faulty roofs mold broken mechanical systems, etc.
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So, additionally health care concerns need to be part of the solution for occupants. So when considering any lead based paint strategy, EPA must also consider the totality of the home and the occupants health as a holistic solution with your other federal
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partners.
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It's a big ask and it's a lot of work and I know it's hard. So thank you very much for listening and for all the work you do as public servants.
151:27
[Leslie Vasquez, Clark County Combined Health District] I'm glad to have this opportunity. I'm very new to lead safety, I work for the card counting combined Health District in Clark County, Ohio.
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Shout out to Stephanie who just spoke. She has been super helpful as well as all of her cohorts.
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In the Toledo area with helping us get up to speed with our let's say program in the Springfield Clark County area.
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The biggest issue that I've seen so far is the lack of abatement Sunday.
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And I just want to agree that collaboration with community partners is essential. And if you haven't checked out Toledo's lead poisoning prevention coalition, you should go check that out because it's, it's just they have a lot of great resources.
153:35
[Gabriella, Private Citizen] I appreciate the comments that they made and reiterate that we support those as well we plan to be submitting written comments but I want to highlight just a couple of things.
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In particular, and one is the RRP enforcement issue which has been something we've been struggling with for a while here in Ohio, and it continues to be a challenge we, one of the things we think that we need is to better tools for for citizens as well
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I mean we obviously need more resources to go to the U.S. EPA itself to do better enforcement I mean I think our region only has a couple people, frankly assigned to do enforcement, that is just it's just insufficient and will never see the enforcement
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and compliance that we need here with that little staffing, but we also need to better arm our citizens with the tools to help do effective enforcement and we've talked to some colleagues they're asking that you actually create some sort of citizen watch
154:37
tools that can be used to make that more accessible to people. And the second thing I want to raise here is that I think we need to do a better job of increasing consumer demand for lead safe and lead free housing and working with private partners to
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educate consumers who are looking for housing, whether it's Zillow or Realtor. com or whatever to be to ask that to ask them to the minimum include housing that is lead safe when we have our certificate we don't have to say that I'm talking about housing
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before 1980 of course.
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So we had to just think outside the box about how to work with some of these private partners to increase consumer demand so that contractors and workers, see the value in being certified and using those let's say practices.
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I also want to reiterate some of the comments on demolition and ensuring that when we talk about. I agree, by the way, with David Jacobs and everyone who said not reducing but eliminating the lead exposures that we need to be looking at that, let's say,
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demolitions and clean up as well. And then finally I just want to say on the workforce piece we absolutely need to as, Stephanie I think said so well really create a pipeline of workers and incentives for workers, not just training and, and, dollars to
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support certification, but other incentives to get workers in this pipeline. So, thank you so much for this time tonight and for the opportunity to share some of these comments.
156:40
[Linda Digby, Private Citizen] And this is Linda Bigby from Kalamazoo Portage is I've been looking at certifications with the community college for water
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people that deal with the water resources from the city, and we need to start involving young people in public participation, getting them certified, getting away from technology getting to understand their environment.
157:08
And not just through health issues but to move, young people into fields like they don't have enough people locally to monitor the levels of contaminants in the local water sources, you know when it's going through all the technology, and we need to start
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getting kids thinking they don't have to go to college to get a good job they can look at asbestos abatement so RK Risa is a, like a collaborative k- nine k-12 school and they just started, you can go to high school and work on a certification, a certificate
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in different areas.
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So, we need to start listening to our young people be involved in them. And I hope some of these community activists and social justice groups, bring in the young people.
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there the salvation of the earth.
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And I really need. I really think we need to listen to them involve them, show them that democracy works, and then participating in government things like this is important to their long term health.
158:46
[Unknown Speaker] Hi, I'll just, I'll keep it real short just because of the comments that I forget her name the last one there spoke from Kalamazoo.
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Matter of fact, I just wrote an article for rural matters magazine which is publication on education beyond the classroom and I guess I kind of wanted to echo a little bit of what she said.
159:08
From an operator's point of view, we have a huge shortage of operators in the state of Michigan.
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And the one thing that is truly needed is some things like going into the classrooms, I teach a lot of classes, matter of fact I I help my son get certified and water this year, he presently works in Kalamazoo and is going over now to Battle Creek I think
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next week.
159:30
But nobody tells us when we're in high school, things like math isn't just to be a math teacher science isn't just to be a scientist, and it would really be nice if there was some kind of funding or something like that we have that we have that we could
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go into some classrooms, colleges or something like that, that, that we could talk to people about this things because, from my point of view anyway and I'll be honest with you, I flunked algebra.
160:05
When I was in school because I saw no use for it. Now, you know I teach up that the other day I did a four hour math class for three days and three states on sewer lagoons, and I would guess two and a half hours of that was math, but I think when you
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give someone a purpose, then people will really.
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They can thrive.
160:28
You know not everybody was made to go to college and everything like that.
160:32
So just a quick, just a quick thing that the education and I guess. Beyond that, and I wrote a lot about that in my article is that the other place that education is absolutely truly lacking is on the admissible level on operators, you know, water industry
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as a, as a whole has set themselves up kind of be to be the third industry that stands out a shovel at the side of the ditch.
160:58
Definitely disrespected in the realm of electric and gas utilities and stuff like that.
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And there needs to be more appreciation for the operators in the field.
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So, and you know, an understanding of what they do and it may start with the operator in the field, you know, not just saying hey I got some work to get done or whatever it may start as something so simple as to say, you know what, boss.
161:25
I got some testing to do today for p FOS or you know I'm working on some lead line replacements. In other words, you know, start it from the top and educate them because there's truly not an appreciation for the whole, the how huge the lead line replacement
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program is. Thank you.

