MEMORANDUM

TO:		Public Record for the NPDES Electronic Reporting Rule
		EPA Docket Number EPA-HQ-OECA-2009-0274 (www.regulations.gov)	

FROM:		Carey A. Johnston, P.E.
            USEPA/OECA/OC
            ph: (202) 566 1014
            johnston.carey@epa.gov

DATE:		28 May 2014

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SUBJECT:	Notes from State Technical Workgroup Meeting (22 May 2014) [DCN 0137]
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Overview 

      This was the tenth meeting for the EPA-state technical workgroup, which is discussing key issues related to the proposed NPDES Electronic Reporting Rule (eRule). These discussions are informing the forthcoming supplemental Federal Register notice and they will continue beyond the publication of the supplemental notice to help EPA address state comments. EPA participants will include the OECA eRule Team as well as representatives from EPA's Office of Water and Office of Environmental Information. Technical workgroup members are listed below in Tables 1 and 2. The agenda for this meeting is also provided below. EPA is summarizing the notes from these discussions for the docket in order to provide transparency on EPA's outreach during the rulemaking process. The OECA eRule team will also be available for any other stakeholder group that would like to discuss the eRule. 
      
Meeting Notes
      
     EPA (Mr. Carey Johnston) started the meeting by reminding state participants that in addition to raising questions during the technical workgroup meetings, states can email their questions on the proposed rule (including the data elements) to EPA. Questions on all aspects of the proposed rule can be sent to Mr. Johnston. Mr. Johnston then asked teleconference participants to focus on the Municipal Separate Storm Sewer System (MS4) data elements in Appendix A. The source of these MS4-specific data elements includes NPDES permit applications and Notices of Intent (NOI) (see 30 July 2013; 78 FR 46093) and the MS4 Program Report (Page 46107).  Mr. Johnston started the technical discussion by reading the name of each data element along with the corresponding data description and regulatory or policy citation. After reading about five to ten elements at a time, Mr. Johnston asked for input from the technical workgroup. Below are some questions and comments from the technical workgroup.
* Missouri commend that the options under the MS4 System Map data element should recognize that some MS4 system maps are partially complete. Mr. Johnston noted that the list of options will allow for some of these differences across MS4s.
   
* Missouri and Texas noted that some MS4s set-up agreements with other municipal entities for enforcement purposes. For example, `non-traditional' MS4s like university campuses or irrigation districts may rely on a nearby local government to enforce the conditions of their MS4 NPDES permit. 
      
* Washington state did not think that the MS4 Public Education Program data element is important and questions whether they should be included in Appendix A. 
      
* New Jersey stated that it would be helpful to see some example options under the data elements related to the MS4 six minimum control measures.
      
* Texas noted that MS4s are unique and that there are difference in how they comply with their NPDES permit. They suggested that the options for the MS4 six minimum control measures need to account for these differences. In particular, Missouri noted that there are many differences in how MS4s might complete the MS4 Maintenance of BMPs data element.
      
* Texas noted that some actions are on-going, which means that there is no completion date. Texas suggested the removal of "including, as appropriate, the months and years" in the MS4 Measureable Goals for Additional Measures data element.

* Indiana (Mr. Tom Easterly) asked whether states would be required to summarize information from individual NPDES permit applications for these MS4 data elements. Mr. Johnston noted that EPA is focused on creating structured data elements in Appendix A (not open text fields) as structured data elements (e.g., codes, yes/no flags) are easier to analyze than open text fields. However, Mr. Johnston noted that states can require individual NPDES permit applicants to type these MS4 data elements (and other Appendix A data elements) and electronically submit these data to the state (e.g., e-mail, on-line). These electronic data submissions would not need to be CROMERR compliant as the copy of record for the individual NPDES permit application is the paper form. This option would provide individual NPDES permit applicants with better control of the generation of these electronic data and reduce the state processing of these data (i.e., state staff would not need to key in these data).
   
Mr. Johnston then asked teleconference participants to focus on the MS4 Program Report data elements (see 30 July 2013; 78 FR 46107).  Mr. Johnston started the technical discussion by reading the name of each data element along with the corresponding data description and regulatory or policy citation. After reading about five to ten elements at a time, Mr. Johnston asked for input from the technical workgroup. Below are some questions and comments from the technical workgroup.
       
* Several states noted that electronic reporting of MS4 Program Report data will require flexibility. In particular, state meeting participants noted that local governments often partner to share responsibilities to control urban stormwater. For example, under a single NPDES permit one local government entity may be responsible for public education and outreach while another local government entity is responsible for illicit discharge detection and elimination. Mr. Johnston noted that EPA intends to use the Unique Number for Each Municipality Covered Under MS4 Permit data element for these types of inter-governmental sharing of MS4 activities. Mr. Johnston noted that this data element could be system generated if that makes electronic reporting easier.
   
* States also noted that EPA will need to account for the fact that some states require one program report for multiple local governments that are covered one MS4 NPDES permit while other states require separate program reports, one for each local government covered a MS4 NPDES permit.
    
* Missouri suggested that EPA use the annual report to show a summary of enforcement actions taken. Other states noted that EPA will need to clarify how local governments that are sharing MS4 responsibilities will complete the enforcement action data elements. 
      
* Texas noted that some actions are on-going, which means that there is no completion date. Texas suggested the removal of "including, as appropriate, the months and years" in the MS4 Measureable Goals for Additional Measures data element.

* ACWA (Mr. Sean Rolland) noted that there are a lot of differences in the MS4 universe. He suggested that EPA's electronic reporting requirements will need to mirror what the states are doing. 
      
      After the meeting, Missouri DNR and New Jersey submitted questions on electronic reporting for the MS4 sector (see Attachments 1 and 2, respectively).
      

Next Steps
      
      The next technical workgroup meeting is May 29th. 
     State Technical Workgroup Meeting  -  NPDES Electronic Reporting Rule
                                  22 May 2014



      1pm		Introduction/Roll Call 

      1:10		Discussion of MS4 Data

      2:30		End of Call
      
      
Quick Reminder
   *    The technical workgroup is not a formal decision-making body. The workgroup is expected to develop, research, and evaluate options for consideration by EPA and state senior management.
   
   *    There are no formal quorum rules for the workgroup. Scheduled teleconferences will proceed with whichever workgroup members call in to participate.

   *    There will be no formal voting or consensus of the workgroup. Instead, the workgroup is expected to try to develop recommendations reflecting their various perspectives, not achieve consensus.

   *    Summaries of the workgroup's discussions will be prepared for and reviewed by the workgroup, for presentation to EPA senior management and other states and the rulemaking record. The discussions summaries will outline the major elements of the discussions, areas of agreement and any dissenting views.

Table 1: State Technical Workgroup Members

                                 Main Contact
                             State or Organization
                              Main Contact Email
                         State/Org. Present? (Yes/No)
                                 Sean  Rolland
                                     ACWA
                             srolland@acwa-us.org
                                      Yes
                                 Karen Lechner
                                      AK
                           karen.lechner@alaska.gov
                                      Yes
                                 Christy Monk
                                      AL
                             cvm@adem.state.al.us
                                      No
                                 Eric Cleckler
                                       
                          ecleckler@adem.state.al.us
                                       
                                  Glenda Dean
                                       
                             gld@adem.state.al.us
                                       
                                 Teresa Marks
                                      AR
                            marks@adeq.state.ar.us
                                      Yes
                                   Pat Goff
                                       
                             goff@adeq.state.ar.us
                                       
                                   Mo Shafii
                                       
                            shafii@adeq.state.ar.us
                                       
                                 Karen Bassett
                                       
                           bassett@adeq.state.ar.us
                                       
                                 David Ramsey
                                       
                            ramsey@adeq.state.ar.us
                                       
                                Ellen Carpenter
                                       
                          carpenter@adeq.state.ar.us
                                       
                                Wendy LeStarge
                                      AZ
                           lestarge.wendy@azdeq.gov
                                      Yes
                                 Robin Belley
                                       
                            belley.robin@azdeq.gov
                                       
                                  David Lelsz
                                       
                            lelsz.david@azdeq.gov;
                                       
                                  Andy Putnam
                                      CO
                           andrew.putnam@state.co.us
                             goff@adeq.state.ar.us
                                      Yes
                                 Elisa Willard
                                       
                           elisa.willard@state.co.us
                                       
                                 Bob Zimmerman
                                      DE
                         robert.zimmerman@state.de.us
                          stephanie.bower@state.de.us
                                      Yes
                                  Beth Graves
                                     ECOS
                               bgraves@ecos.org
                                      No
                                  Chris Klena
                                      FL
                         chris.m.klena@dep.state.fl.us
                                      Yes
                              Jessica Kleinfelter
                                       
                      jessica.kleinfelter@dep.state.fl.us
                                       
                                 Edward Smith
                                       
                        edward.c.smith@dep.state.fl.us
                                       
                               Frances Carpenter
                                       
                       frances.carpenter@dnr.state.ga.us
                                       
                                 Tom Easterly
                                      IN
                             teasterl@idem.in.gov
                              ckoontz@idem.in.gov
                                      Yes
                               Jeremy Chenevert
                                       
                             jcheneve@idem.in.gov
                                       
                                 Ed Dillingham
                                      KS
                            edillingham@kdheks.gov
                                      No
                             Shelly Shores-Miller
                                       
                              sshoresm@kdheks.gov
                                       
                                Shawn Hokanson
                                      KY
                             shawn.hokanson@ky.gov
                                      No
                                 Ruth Wallace
                                      MO
                            ruth.wallace@dnr.mo.gov
                                      Yes
                              Christopher Miller
                                       
                            epermitting@dnr.mo.gov
                                       
                                  Tamara Dahl
                                      MN
                            tamara.dahl@state.mn.us
                                      Yes
                                 Greg Jackson
                                      MS
                         greg_jackson@deq.state.ms.us
                                      No
                                  John Murphy
                                    NEIWPCC
                              jmurphy@neiwpcc.org
                                      No
                                 Jason Lonardo
                                      NJ
                         jason.lonardo@dep.state.nj.us
                                      Yes
                                 Julio Collazo
                                       
                         julio.collazo@dep.state.nj.us
                                       
                                 Robert Wither
                                      NY
                          rewither@gw.dec.state.ny.us
                                      Yes
                                 Joseph DiMura
                                       
                          jxdimura@gw.dec.state.ny.us
                                       
                             Shellie Chard-McClary
                                      OK
                       shellie.chard-mcclary@deq.ok.gov
                                      Yes
                                  Roy Walker
                                       
                             roy.walker@deq.ok.gov
                                       
                                 David Pruitt
                                       
                            david.pruitt@deq.ok.gov
                                       
                                 Jim Billings
                                      OR
                         billings.jim@deq.state.or.us
                                      Yes
                                 Sean Furjanic
                                      PA
                               sefurjanic@pa.gov
                                      No
                                Kent Woodmansey
                                      SD
                          kent.woodmansey@state.sd.us
                                      No
                                   Tim Flor
                                       
                             tim.flor@state.sd.us
                                       
                                Albert Spangler
                                       
                          albert.spangler@state.sd.us
                                       
                               Lawrence Bunting
                                      TN
                           lawrence.bunting@TN.gov  
                                      Yes
                                  Kim Wilson
                                      TX
                           kim.wilson@tceq.texas.gov
                                      Yes
                                 Lynley Doyen
                                       
                          lynley.doyen@tceq.texas.gov
                                       
                               Kimberly Shepard
                                       
                        kimberly.shepard@tceq.texas.gov
                                       
                                 Jeff Studenka
                                      UT
                              jstudenka@utah.gov
                                      No
                                 Jerome Brooks
                                      VA
                        jerome.brooks@deq.virginia.gov
                                      Yes
                                  Phani Eturu
                                       
                         phani.eturu@deq.virginia.gov
                                       
                                Stephen Bernath
                                      WA
                              sber461@ecy.wa.gov
                                      Yes
                                  Nancy Kmet
                                       
                              nkme461@ecy.wa.gov
                                       
      
Table 2: EPA Technical Workgroup Members

                                     Name
                                  EPA Office 
                                     Email
                               Present? (Yes/No)
                                   Lisa Lund
                                  OECA/OC/IO
                               lund.lisa@epa.gov
                                      No
                                John Dombrowski
                                 OECA/OC/ETDD
                            dombrowski.john@epa.gov
                                      Yes
                                  Andy Hudock
                                 OECA/OC/ETDD
                             hudock.andrew@epa.gov
                                      Yes
                                Rochele Kadish
                                 OECA/OC/ETDD
                            kadish.rochele@epa.gov
                                      Yes
                                Carey Johnston
                                 OECA/OC/ETDD
                            johnston.carey@epa.gov
                                      Yes
                                 Jackie Clark
                                  OW/OWM/WPD
                             clark.jackie@epa.gov
                                      Yes
                                  Roy Chaudet
                                 OEI/OIC/IESD
                              chaudet.roy@epa.gov
                                      No
                                 Chuck Freeman
                                 OEI/OIC/IESD
                            freeman.charles@epa.gov
                                      No
                                 Aditi Prabhu
                                    OGC/WLO
                             prabhu.aditi@epa.gov
                                      Yes
                                 David Apanian
                                   Region 4
                             apanian.david@epa.gov
                                      Yes
                                Holly Galavotti
                                  OW/OWM/WPD
                            galavotti.holly@epa.gov
                                      Yes
                                  Glynis Hill
                                 OP/ORPM/PRAD
                              hill.glynis@epa.gov
                                      Yes


                 Attachment 1  -  Questions from Missouri DNR

Carey,

Thank you for the information on today's call. I am coming into the conversation late, so some of my questions may reflect that.  I am in the process of looking at the rule more closely, though. There were three of us from Missouri on the call today: Joshua Ernst, Christopher Miller and me.

Some things that came to mind after the call:

   * Would it be possible to qualify the co-permittee question up front rather than later in the form?

EPA Answer: Yes. EPA will need to configure the MS4 Program Report electronic reporting form to account for the fact that a single MS4 NPDES permit may cover multiple local governments or entities (e.g., university, water district). These regulated entities may be co-permittees or there may be one permittee that performs MS4 activities for one or more other local governments. Additionally, some states require one program report for when multiple local governments are covered one MS4 NPDES permit while other states require separate program reports, one for each local government covered a MS4 NPDES permit. EPA will need to account for all of these options in its electronic reporting form.

   * Would it be possible then to correlate permit #s and unique ID #s to primary permit #s at that time?  As an example, Metropolitan St. Louis Sewer District (MSD) is the continuing authority for themselves as primary permittee, but they are also the coordinating authority for 60 co-permittees having their own continuing authority each.  MSD and co-permittees share authority on some permit items such as illicit discharge mapping, inspection and enforcement. (MSD owns the county-wide system, but many discharge points are on co-permittee properties so they all need to have prohibition, inspection and enforcement authority.)

EPA Answer: Yes. As previously stated, EPA will need to configure the MS4 Program Report electronic reporting form to account for the fact that a single MS4 NPDES permit may cover multiple local governments or entities. Using your example, MSD will record on their MS4 Program report the lead for each MS4 minimum control measure.  

   * County information is helpful on all forms as we store efiles by region then county.

EPA Answer: Please let us know if this is a new data element that you would like tracked in the MS4 Program Report.  

Here are links to our annual report form and addendum.  The addendum calls out some potentially common items as modified from EPA's great annual report form draft.  (We built in water quality qualifiers in post-construction questions, because this is an area of great confusion and change for MS4s.)

You might find the addendum helpful in that they can elicit a yes or no answer in several areas.

   * Stormwater Annual Report - Small MS4 Permits
   * Stormwater Annual Report - Small MS4 Permits Addendum - Water Quality Program Assessment

EPA Answer: Thank you for your suggestion. We will look at these example forms to help further refine the MS4 data elements.

Also, all individual permit applicants (or site-specific as we say in Missouri) submit hard-copy applications on our FORM A. Does that have any relevance to this discussion?  

EPA Answer: The proposed NPDES Electronic Reporting Rule does not require electronic reporting of individual NPDES permit applications. However, the proposed rule does require electronic reporting of Notices of Intent (NOI), which will include many Phase II (small) MS4s.

Finally, I am curious to know if this is for all MS4s, or just general permittees.

EPA Answer: The proposed NPDES Electronic Reporting Rule required electronic reporting of all MS4 Program Reports (Phase I and Phase II MS4s).

Will this include TMDL info and related monitoring as called for in some Small MS4 SWMPs?

EPA Answer: The data elements for the MS4 Program Reports are listed on page 46107 and 46108 of the proposed rule. The NPDES permitting authority may require the MS4 to include information related to a TMDL as part of these data elements. Additionally, the NPDES permitting authority may require monitoring, which can be reported on a Discharge Monitoring Report (DMR). EPA's proposed rule also requires electronic reporting of DMRs. Additionally, EPA's electronic reporting systems, NPDES Electronic Reporting Tool (NeT) and NetDMR, also allow for PDF attachments to be submitted alongside other data. 

Either way, it appears to me that Missouri will need to:

   1. Significantly modify the MS4 application form for inclusion of specific permit and SWMP questions;
   2. Significantly modify MoCWIS to accommodate online appliction info;
   3. Significantly modify MoCWIS to accommodate online annual report info; and
   4. Majorly modify MoCWIS to correlate unique ID#s (co-permit billing #s) to other permit #s or to Other non-permit #s.

We look forward to the draft on-line documents.

Thanks again for your time and effort on this and for accommodating my late-to-the-scene questions/comments.

Best regards,

Ruth A. Wallace, CMS4S
Municipal Stormwater Program Coordinator
PO Box 176
Jefferson City, MO 65102-0176
573 522 1131
Stormwater Information Clearinghouse
http://dnr.mo.gov/env/wpp/stormwater/index.html
                Attachment 1  -  Questions from New Jersey DEP
New Jersey's Follow-up Comments on MS4 E-Reporting Data Elements
Not all states implement their programs consistently.  States have relied on EPA guidance and flexibility (http://www.epa.gov/npdes/pubs/measurablegoals.pdf) that have encouraged development of stormwater management programs and measurable goals that meet their individual needs. Requiring standardized reporting elements that coincide directly with the regulations will be difficult.  Having the code element details is necessary to determine if the information that will be requested is available, necessary, or even relevant for tracking.  It would be useful to better understand the purpose for the information and its intended use that would allow consideration of possible other reporting methods that could achieve the same purpose and intent.
EPA Answer: EPA will need to configure the MS4 Program Report electronic reporting form to account for the differences in how MS4 report their activities and measurable goals for each of the six minimum control measures. For example, for the first minimum control measure, "Public Education and Outreach on Storm Water Impacts," an MS4 may elect to initiate or continue a stormwater education program for school children with a measurable goal of educating 50 percent of all school children (K-12) every two years on the effects or stormwater pollution and activities they can do to prevent this pollution. EPA will work with states to develop useful data for states, EPA, and the public along with the flexibility that MS4s need to report these data. 
It may be desirable to have discrete reporting categories that differentiate between Phase I, Phase II, general permits and individual permits.  NJ has no Phase I municipalities, no individual permits,no co-permittees sharing responsibilities and each municipality is permitted separately.  EPA should be able to populate the database with this information so that the reports for each municipality are auto-populated so that only the applicable catetory(s) [sic] with the associated reporting elements appear.
EPA Answer: EPA agrees with New Jersey that Appendix A should be able to distinguish between Phase I, Phase II, general permits and individual permits. We are also planning on pre-populating data in its electronic reporting forms to facilitate and expedite electronic reporting. 
Construction Site Runoff Control reporting requirements should be part of the Construction and Industrial Activities e-report.  Although related to the MS4 permits through the Phase II regulation, construction activities are regulated through separate required permits and not the MS4 permit.  
EPA Answer: The construction and industrial stormwater data on individual construction sites will come from the individual construction sites' NPDES permit applications and NOIs not the MS4. 
NJ utilizes its own Statewide soil erosion and sediment control regulations and 15 Soil Conservation Districts to control construction site runoff for projects that disturb 5,000 sq. ft. or more of land.  Through a Statewide Construction General Permit and in coordination with the SCDs all construction site runoff is regulated for projects that disturb 1 or more acres.
EPA Answer: EPA thanks New Jersey for this information.
